Oblivion Re-Rated = Bad News
The ESRB just re-rated Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion from Teen to Mature. On the surface the bad news for Bethesda is that fewer units will be sold to an M audience and it's a little bit of a black eye as well because of the "nude content introduced into the game from a third party mod". Sure, it's only for the PC version but the news blurb will affect all SKUs regardless.
Ok, so the story is that there was no nude content in the game's data but some modder added it with a utility. In the case of GTA's Hot Coffee incident there was actually some hidden art assets and animations that were unlocked by modders and thus got that game jacked up by the ESRB as well - and it really affected ALL ratings in the industry past that point. It's now harder to get a lower rating because of these hacks.
What's the point of this all this? That modders are now screwing up the industry they're supposed to be helping. In 1993 we opened up all our data to the industrious and ambitious folks out there who want to see what it's like to be able to make their favorite game a little more like what they'd want.....and get a taste of being a semi-game designer in the process. The most awesome example of what this philosophy has brought is CounterStrike.
Now what's going to happen? You'll probably start seeing game data files becoming encrypted and the open door on assets getting slammed shut just to keep modders from financially screwing the company they should be helping. And the day a game company's file encryption is hacked to add porn and the case goes to the ESRB for review - that's when we'll see how well game companies are protected from these antics and what the courts will rule. Hopefully it'll be on the developer's side.
UPDATE: In case ONLY this post is linked, check the main site for a followup post. Planet ROME.RO
posted by John Romero at 12:15 PM
125 Comments:
Personally i think that this re-rating is nothing but a hysterical over-reaction by people who don't know enough about the medium.
This is like re-rating a Movie just because some Fan added custom scenes to it and made it available in some way. People should stock up on common sense here, seriously.
Ideas are free, and if someone gets the Idea to Mod "Nude Skins" into a Game ( for whatever reason ), it is just plain silly to act as if the Original Creator of the Game would be responsible for this.
It was probably always possible ( with a certain amount of time and dedication, and probably in a more "hacky" way ) to change Art-Assets of Games to whatever came to one's mind. Just because nobody "hacked" Art-Assets of 'Barbie Horse Adventure' doesn't mean its not possible - increase the ESRB Rating of it NOW before its too late ! ( note sarcasm )
Also, Mods usually don't install themselves automatically in a magical way, there is always the choice of the Game-Owner to get a certain Mod or not. Which makes this re-rating even more a ridiculous step.
2:43 PM
That sure is a shame, the mod community has been going down for a while... but at least indie-developers are fighting an uphill battle
3:46 PM
It's worth noting that if the game files were encrypted, and a modder hacks them to add/change content, he would be guilty under the DMCA of circumventing security protecion or whatever it is.
If nothing else, that would be fairly powerful for the game companies in court, and with their own lawsuit.
It's a real shame to see this starting to happen though.
5:34 PM
Blame the politicians, not the modders. Modder can, in some cases, greatly increase sales of a game. Lets not forget that. This is pretty much the second time, one individual modder may have hit sales. I do feel bad for Bethesda though - tough break.
I can see both sides of the coin, and both the modders and developers are going to lose out if this continues. The fault though, is unfortunately with people not remotely interested in the industry - pinhead politicians!
6:02 PM
I really don't understand why the ESRB has re-rated the game just because of something that is not a part of the game...
At least I understand for the hot coffee case but for oblivion.......
7:40 PM
Don't blame the modders or the developers. Blame the ESRB for not knowing the difference between native content and third-party content. If the people rating the games are that f**ing stupid, then this won't be the time the industry is screwed.
8:31 PM
It's weird that you choose to single out the modders when there are so many other groups obviously at fault for this situation. I wonder if you would have reacted the same way if George Lucas had sued id over a Star Wars Doom mod.
9:41 PM
Why don't you lay the blame where it belongs, on the misinformed ESRB, instead of on the mod community. Unless you're bitter that those "semi-game designers" can make more enjoyable content than you.
9:46 PM
If George Lucas had sued id over the Star Wars mod, and won, we would have encrypted our data and the mod community would not even have begun. It's just taken 13 years for this situation to arise.
Whether it's the ESRB's fault for being so reactionary or the modders fault for causing the problem in the first place makes no difference - the net result is the mod community dying a slow death.
2:33 AM
What the hell? So you can go to Google and find a 3rd party mod that display nudity.. so what? You can go to google and search for "porn" and download real porn movies if you want.
And regardless.. the game creators should not be held liable for what modders do. That would be like rating MS Windows M because you can view porn on it. And the modders should not have to quit making mods because there's something wrong with the system. If the system is wrong, fix it.
4:12 AM
What the hell? So you can go to Google and find a 3rd party mod that display nudity.. so what? You can go to google and search for "porn" and download real porn movies if you want.
And regardless.. the game creators should not be held liable for what modders do. That would be like rating MS Windows M because you can view porn on it. And the modders should not have to quit making mods because there's something wrong with the system. If the system is wrong, fix it.
4:13 AM
I'm really disappointed with the tone of this post. A mogul such as yourself should be on the other side of the fight. Seems to me that you could use your game industry clout to figure out what the hell is going on at the ESRB and how things could be changed for the better.
What a waste.
7:14 AM
Actually Mr. Romero, the nude content does ship with the game.
1) Open 'Oblivion - Meshes.bsa'
2.) Extract 'femaleupperbodynude.nif' to \data\meshes\characters\_male\
3.) Rename the extracted file to 'femaleupperbody.nif'
4.) Run the game
So, with all due respect, if you're not going to do the slightest bit of research before attacking the modders, you sink to the level of the politicians who wish to blow this out of proportion. :(
8:21 AM
If George Lucas had sued id over the Star Wars mod, and won, we would have encrypted our data and the mod community would not even have begun. It's just taken 13 years for this situation to arise.
Yeah, but would you have exclusively fired shots in the direction of the mod community for that? Back then, from what I understand, you were thrilled that people were extending the game -- even without any explicit blessing.
The "situation" that's taken 13 years to arise is not the result of changes that happened in the mod community (i.e. its spirit has remained pretty constant).
Whether it's the ESRB's ... makes no difference - the net result is the mod community dying a slow death.
And yet you choose to point the finger at modders.
As a person with some sway in the industry I was hoping you might, you know, drive some conversation about how the ESRB needs to change it's take on 3rd party, unofficial mods. Or at least you could not perform synchronized jumping motions with them.
I have a ton of respect for you accomplishments John. I learned how to program (and how much fun it could be) by hacking Doom and QuakeC. Anything seemed possible. That's why your take on this is so disturbing to me.
9:52 AM
How irritating esrb is. In my country no one buys a game by esrb's ratings. They buy it 'cause they want to play with it. All men have the right to play games! This age ratings are irritating and stupid. Did games change anything in a childs life? 90% NOTHING! And when you are go in to a shop to buy oblivion and you're only 15 they say "esrb have changed the ratings, sorry lad you have to download it or buy it by your parents". WHATTTA HOLY F*CK! Hot coffe mod in gta?? Not sex is the problem! Its the hours of killing the people! and oll of these are why? Becouse america needs soldiers not young f*ck*rs. Damn the esrb, damn bush, damn america, and damn that fucking glitch what made by modders! Altrough that nude texture is not so bad, only the lower... it have no point. ESRB must stopped once and for all. They are f*ck*ng christians who have the need to rule over as by controlling our lives! Damn 'em!
10:24 AM
If ESRB rate ut2007 teen i gonna blow someones head. Violence instead of sex? LOL Christian motherf*ck*rs.
10:28 AM
Yeah, except its not like that, because apparently Oblivion had those models in it anyway. The mod just enables them.
Its not a matter of modders adding something new; its the modders revealing something that was already there. Now why did they leave this stuff in there in the first place?
11:00 AM
The ESRB maintains the nude art was shipped on the original disk. The mod just unlocks it. If you don't want your game to get a mature rating, don't ship it with mature art. Voila.
11:04 AM
Well, John, perhaps if game developers didn't put in questionable unlockable content, they wouldn't suffer the consequences. Sure, it's fucking stupid that the ESRB uses this as an excuse to raise the rating, but sometimes there's nothing you can do. Now, when the ESRB starts jacking up games' ratings because of mods that are completely 3rd party, then you can blame the modders. But even then, I still don't think they should be blamed for the ESRB being a bunch of stupid assholes.
11:07 AM
the net result is the mod community dying a slow death.
Well, John, I play on the outskirts of the mod community but like a lot of gamers/creators I read a bunch as well as chat with those of a like mind. The ONLY way I can see the mod community dying is IF THE GAME DEVELOPERS LET THEM DIE. How about game developers banding together and fighting crap actions by the ESRB - like this one? How about banding together to use a small percentage of the hundreds of millions of dollars that flow through this industry to (and I hate to say this) start a PAC or other entity in Washington to combat the FUD that the squeaky wheels keep pouring out? You know, "buy" some representation that GETS gamers/gaming and that can fully understand what a mod is, that third-party mods are NOT under the control of the original creator, and that no matter what the intentions of the original creator of said game someone, somewhere is going to do something someone doesn't like with the content of the game. Hell, how about we get some common sense into our legislatures?
Two last points: 1) I'd like someone to explain to me why The Sims (any version) has NOT been recalled and re-labeled mature? They have fully rendered nudes in the game thanks to third-party modifications. 2) With Neverwinter Nights 2 coming out, and NWN 1 still going strong, not to mention Doom 1-3, CS, and _many_ other games still in the public eye and thriving due to the mod community how is it that this same community is dying a slow death (besides Hot Coffee + TES:Oblivion - two negatives out of many, many positives)?
11:15 AM
As far as I understand it... The mod caused the ESRB to go back to the game. The ESRB "took a second look" at the violence (or so they say)and decided to re-rate the game.
I just view it as an excuse for the ESRB to not look like fools when this all went down.
I want to know, in all of this, who was the whistle blower? Who made this mod and then directly alerted everyone to it?
11:15 AM
The nude texture file was there, you just need to rename a file in order to access it. It's basically the same as the Hot Coffee mod - just less severe.
11:19 AM
John, the art file was on the disc already. This is stated explicitly in the mod's readme and was also admitted by Bethesda. The ESRB makes no exceptions for locked-out content, apparently. I guess tha makes sense from the POV of a lawyer, though I still do disagree with it. I don't think the ESRB is going to go after companies for things solely created by modders.
The other element to this was apparently gore. I yet to figure out what they're actually arguing over with that part.
11:20 AM
It "makes no difference" only if you accept the outcome. If instead you choose to try and attempt to remedy the situation, then it is important to figure out who or what is at fault.
11:30 AM
Encryption doesn't matter. This will just encourage more people to offer binary modification, and we all know where that leads -- piracy. Don't say that's not possible or likely, since that used to be how it was done.
I've seen people wedge MySQL hooks into RPGs by binay patching. =)
11:31 AM
The nudity was on the game disc, complete with nipples, though not meant to be seen. Modders took the body mesh that was meant to be shown through gaps in armor, etc. and re-applied it over the character. That particular piece of artwork has since been patched without nipples, but it WAS Bethesda's artwork, albeit reapplied in a way they didn't plan for.
11:32 AM
From what I understand the nude art is actually on the oblivion disks, not part of the mod. So it's pretty much like hot coffee. The ESRB has changed their policy to rate all the content on the disk, wether or not it's normally accessible in the game, hence the ratings change once the file that was shipped in the game was exposed.
I don't see the problem here. They aren't re-rating games where the mod itself has the content that would cause a ratings change, they only are rating the content that is on the shipping product. It no longer matters to them if it takes a mod to unlock the content. I think that's fair personally. If you don't want the M rating, don't include any mature content on the disk. If someone downloads mature content from the modding community, well, that's no longer in the hands of the developers or the ESRB.
11:33 AM
this situation is crying out for a modder to create a bunch of filthy mods for games with E or EC (Early Childhood) ratings, strictly as a political statement.
"Just because nobody "hacked" Art-Assets of 'Barbie Horse Adventure' doesn't mean its not possible - increase the ESRB Rating of it NOW before its too late ! ( note sarcasm )" -- kill the sarcasm! Do it!
11:36 AM
games with nude...
music shows lots of big aSSes and other dancelidricous ideas, movies with nude, comedy with porn ideas.. all internet shows nude and fuc!@# for free a lot! the stupid asshole politicous undestand 2 things.. ASS and WAR.
Oblivions is wonderful, realy BAD news!
11:39 AM
I look forward to the day when teenage gamers aren't an important part of the demographic. We're half way there already.
Then stuff like this won't particularly matter, and there won't be the temptation to water games down for extra sales.
Might never happen though, looking at all the lame 15-rated films.
11:40 AM
John Romero said...
If George Lucas had sued id over the Star Wars mod, and won, we would have encrypted our data and the mod community would not even have begun. It's just taken 13 years for this situation to arise.
You, of all people, seem to miss the point. Had that lawsuit happened, there would likely have been a huge uprising, people would have attempted to force Lucas to grow a brain, Lucas would either drop or lose the case, and the reality of id's non-responsibility for third-party mods would have set the standard.
That's what you and the rest of the industry should be doing now, rather than grumbling uselessly about the community who keep things like "Doom" alive even now, however many years after the fact.
11:44 AM
Anyone who says this situation is just like Hot Coffee obviously doesn't know much about at least one of the two situations. in GTA, the 'locked content' was a fully-programmed sex mini-game, complete with animations, art resources, and code to control and score it. Oblivion's 'locked content' not only fails the elephant-test for pornography, but has a specific non-sexual purpose for its inclusion. If you're not aware, having a bare skinned model allows designers (and yes, modders) to have more creative control over the clothing and armor they create -- backless dresses, for instance.
I bet the folks at Bethesda are scratching their heads as to who could possibly have thought that the art assets in question were intended for titilation and not gameplay.
12:04 PM
This action is entirely on the shoulders of the ESRB.
While might agree that Oblivion should have an adult rating, they're doing it for the wrong reasons.
This is a game, where a player can beat the living daylights out of characters splattering blood everywhere & send other characters screaming and running for cover when they witness this.
Me comitting violence (& witnessing its detrimental effect on others) via my avatar is perfectly ok for all ages, but as soon as I can see boobies *gasp*
It's a mature rating.
Those priorities need to be straightened out.
12:33 PM
lol john
-YOU- put your game on -MY- computer, then you accept that -I- will alter it as -I- please on -MY- private property whether -YOU- like it or not.
Bethesda can black-out the nipples if they want -- being their game and their patch, it's within their rights to. But as soon as it lands on my hard drive that I legally bought and own, all's fair game to re-edit the data as I please.
12:34 PM
Blaming the modders here is wrong - please get your facts straight.
The file *was* on the disk, and therefore clearly a violation of the ESRB Rules. Don't blame the modders for that.
Modders are also not 'supposed to be helping the industry'. They are already adding value to our products by increasing their shelf life - but they are not bound to the ESRB rating, nor should they.
We sell international products, if we start to blame modders for making mods that are culturally not acceptable in certain countries (note: nobody gives a damn about a few nipples in Europe).
So don't blame the modders for making the content they want to. You don't pay them. You don't command them. You profit from them.
The industry is not handling this situation correctly.
Remember the Lion King incident a while back? Animators writing the word 'Sex' in the clouds for a couple of frames?
Outrage? Yes.
Product Recall? Yes.
Questioning the product rating system for the whole inudstry? No.
1:12 PM
Mr T.
Well, Hot Coffee which was an explicit sex game got it moved from M to AO rating, while the nude art file in oblivion got Teen moved to an M rating.
The way they are the same is that they are both content that's on the disk, but not available in the game proper without someone unlocking it through a third party mod.
Basically the policy has just changed is all. Instead of in-game content being rated, it's all content on the disk being rated. The rest of the policies are the same, so explicit sex gets AO, nudity (complete with nipples in the case of breasts) gets M. Technical reasons aside for designing the game that way, there is content on the disk that according to the ESRB system warrants an M.
On the other hand, I don't think nudity *should* warrent an M rating, but that's a whole nother kettle of fish, the idea that nudity/sex is worse then killing is completely absurd in my opinion, but I'm not in the "moral majority" here. The ratings system tailors to the moral majority.
1:17 PM
As others has pointed out, this was in fact shipped content - an easter egg supplied by the makers of the game. The only reason for any easter egg is for it to be found, which means it should be included in the rating - you have to assume it will be found.
So if you want to direct your anger at anyone, it should be against the developers who persist in adding these kinds of things to the games, they are the ones making the business harder for everyone, not the modders!
It's utterly unfair to blame the modders for something the developers put there, what purpose has that content but to be modded into existence?
I hope you'll update your views, big fan otherwise!
1:29 PM
The art assets in question included nipples. I can't think of a reason to include them that would help visual flexibility for clothing.
It seems that if the nipples had simply been blacked out rounded bits of texture everyone would have been happy. An interesting bit of perspective on the absurd views on what constitutes adult content.
2:00 PM
This is @(*$ rediculous.
By 14 years old most teens have seen pornographic images let alone pixelated, topless models buried into game data. Any 14 year old on the internet can easily download porn far more graphic than the topless model.
The ESRB is out of touch and so are fascists that support their ratings.
2:03 PM
"...modders are now screwing up the industry they're supposed to be helping."
"You'll probably start seeing game data files becoming encrypted and the open door on assets getting slammed shut just to keep modders from financially screwing the company they should be helping."
I'm shocked to hear you say those things, John. The problem isn't modders, it's the ESRB; how anyone could blame modders for the ESRB's ridiculous policies is beyond me. ESRB's position seems to show a bizarre lack of understanding regarding how modding works. This isn't a great analogy, but if a buy a Disney movie, edit in some porn, and re-distribute it, is Disney to blame? Of course not -- that would be utterly ridiculous, just as this situation is. The ESRB has no right or grounds to go after Bethesda whatsoever. Modders should feel free to do whatever they like, whether anyone agrees with their content or not; the ESRB should leave the developers and publishers alone.
2:06 PM
While I don't recognize the necessity of the ESRB as an entity, I think they are doing the right thing as per their goal: to inform (ignorant) parents of the content of games. As many have observed, it's as easy to get these mods as it is to access porn on the internet. But if you turn that analysis around, you realize that it's therefore pretty easy to get the mods. So for the ESRB to be effective (in the eyes of the fools who think they're necessary), they need to factor in this content.
It's a bit of a slippery slope, but I think it's fair to draw the line such that "locked on-disk content" is on the "ratable" side. I wonder what will happen, though, when games like Spore start pushing things toward the dynamic-content side. If the game is flexible enough to allow you to sculpt phallic objects, should it be M-rated? Even if the game doesn't ship with any phallic objects pre-generated, but merely has the potential to dynamically output them?
2:13 PM
"That modders are now screwing up the industry they're supposed to be helping"
Put the blame where it belongs--on the BS ratings companies. Not on your consumers (ie: modders).
2:21 PM
What I don't understand is, why is the industry making such a big fuss about breasts in Oblivion. Not only did God of War have two pairs of breasts in it, but it even had a built-in threesome minigame. It didn't show a graphic depiction of the act, but it was heavily implied--like, shaking-the-bed heavily. Yet the media didn't raise an eyebrow about it; even Jack Thompson didn't say a word.
At least the breasts in Oblivion are realistic looking instead of the gravity-defying boulders in most games. Plus, there's nothing inherently sexual about the boobs--they're about as erotic as a National Geographic magazine.
2:28 PM
Please, someone make a Barbie Horse Adventure nudie mod and send it to the ESRB, Choy, Hilary, JT, and all major media!!!
2:29 PM
It is (except if you introduce heavy-weight counter measures) nearly impossible to prevent modding. But, you need to be careful what you ship If you include something that can be used against you (may it be nudity, or extended gore with more blood or a silly easter egg game) it will be used against you. You can only be sure if you don't ship something like that, period.
3:05 PM
It's not the mod community that will die. Modding was there before Doom, you just made it easier. The game industry is merely killing itself. As previously mentioned(and I saw it myself when I extracted the packages) the files were already in the program. As were countless text documents that said "Please delete this before the final build". If the game industry doesn't want to lose sales I have an idea for them. Stop releasing an unfinished product. Game sales in general are dropping and innovation is pretty much already dead. I was at EBGames(Don't ask me why) the other day and was looking at the new releases. All but I believe two had a number appended to the end. So game developers need to stop pointing the finger at whatever excuse they can possibly think of and actually turn it back around to who is really to blame. The ESRB were being overzealous with this last move, but frankly I don't blame them. They got into a bunch of trouble last time they weren't paying close enough attention and if they fuck up that badly again, I can easily see an unconstutional law being railroaded in that not only creates a new rating system, but this time one with the power of bannination. Who knows if the game industry could survive that long enough for it to get overturned.
3:07 PM
Hmm, first thing that comes to mind after reading the comments: sheesh, don't shoot the messenger. When I read John's post, what I read was "Modders have a responsibility to the game (and other modders) and this sort of mod hinders that great part of the industry. Verbiage aside, I don't think his comments are uncalled for.
And this blind resentment for the ESRB has to stop. Calling them uneducated and ironic at best. With all its shortcomings, the ESRB is still what stands in the way of the Jack Thompson’s of the world of having their (puritan) ways. They try as much as possible to be fair and they have to be in other to keep the government censorship out of our games.
Linked to that, the ESRB does not dictate content of any game. Not directly. It’s really unfortunate, but money drives those decisions. When the creative process moves from “let’s make a game -> oh look we got an E rating, neat” to “Here is the list of things we can do in order to get an E rating” then the process is broken. I think this event stresses just how much Publishers and Devs (to a degree) are just obsessed with the ratings. Honestly.. that should be a creative choice, not a business choice. Screwing up your creative vision for a letter is one of the reasons I’m thinking of leaving this industry and going to non-profits.
Side note: and if the god damn almighty holy dollar stopped invading every freakin step of the process, maybe devs would have time to filter some of this stuff out. On the few products I’ve worked on, all of them shipped with a butt load (bloat?) of unused content. Placeholder sounds, textures, even a few models of stuff you never see. It gets to a point where cleaning all of that cost more than leaving it. Up to now.
And a final note: The ESRB’s current rating system is a bit dated now. While they do have the “Game Experience May Change” for online games, I think having a mention about modifiable content would not be out of place and might cover this sort of situation.
Overall, I think this is quite the blamestorm. I think even consumers should take a look at their habits and question if they are really helping the industry.
3:08 PM
Apparently the childrens book "The hungry caterpiller" can only be sold in licensed adults shops now because someone went into their local library and scrawled cocks all over the starving protagonist.
3:11 PM
http://www.newsday.com/business/ny-bzgoog0505,0,2601653.story?coll=ny-top-headlines
just as silly..
3:19 PM
so basically a female nipple texture not accesable by default on the disk causes a mature rating in itself.
Thats pretty pathetic..I forget how backwards Some of these american officials are.
UpNorth here its legal for women to go topless..cuz its sexist discrimination not allowing them yet allowing men.
Yet 100km south of me a Mature rating for a nipple texture.
Sigh yay! overreaction.
3:23 PM
Why not add capabilities to the game software itself to allow parents to be able to disable and enable the use of 3rd party modifications?
Ultimately I should be able to create a mod itself and tag it as being mature or for kids.
What would be cool is that you could mod oblivion so that it would be appropriate in the other direction - switching out weapons and having a non-violent game if there is market interest. Or go the other way- either way having a standard that identifies the type of mod you are getting.
3:32 PM
Why are nipples evil anyway? Why is it acceptable that you can beat people to death, run them over, shoot them (thinking of GTA here, but it wouldn't be the only example), but as soon as there are nipples onscreen, it's suddenly bad for your children? Who in America is this stubborn and dumb? Is there really only a small group responsible for all of the nonsense that keeps happening over there? I mean, it's ok to show live reports from real war scenes in prime time TV, but when Janet Jackson's nipple is on screen for a split second, there is a huge uproar. How did that happen? How did people's minds get so screwed? What on earth is wrong with the biggest nation on this planet (?) that they all seem like complete and utter idiots to the other parts of the world? I'm sure that can't be.. but where are the clever people? Where are the people who have some common sense? Apparently none of them are in any position to make a difference. What a shame.
3:35 PM
Not to be overly critical here, but you don't express an understanding of what modding Oblivion involves. If what you were saying in your post was actually the case then I might agree with you, but modders are not the problem.
Bethesda is fully aware of what is involved in changing the nif files for this kind of mod, and should have known that leaving that artwork in the game would result in nude mods. It was sloppy of them to ship the game with the nude meshes, and the ESRB isn't happy about that. Blaming the modders is misplaced entirely.
3:46 PM
'That modders are now screwing up the industry they're supposed to be helping'
They aren't 'supposed to be helping' the industry. They are independent people working on their own time. If you want these people to 'help' you then hire them to work for your company - otherwise you are expecting to get something for nothing which is a bit rich coming from a multi-million dollar industry.
3:52 PM
what is wrong with female breasts? let's work on the people with the hang-ups.
4:21 PM
John. I agree with you on many, many things, but I think that you are wrong on this one.
Modders have no responsibility towards helping the game-industry. They bought the game and they can do with it what they want. If they want to make something awesome, that's great. If they want to make something really stupid, that's great too. It's their game.
5:18 PM
The ESRB's decision to re-rate Oblivion will erode their credibility.
Bethesda made a kick-ass, and mod'able, game. Go them!
Its common sense that a rating applies to an unmodified game, right?
Mod is slang for modification. DUH
When common sense and policy differ, credibility suffers. The rating systems are about their credibility.
Also, how many people actually consider game ratings during purchase decisions?
*shrug*
5:28 PM
Yeah like encrypting the game data files will work. Just like there is no way to hack an actual game to pirate it.
Gamers have grown up and the industry needs to follow suit. Publishers should release a Teen version that's censored and a Mature or Adult version with other stuff in it to not offend sensitive users.
This also limits the effectiveness of the ESRB by making them seem hypocritical. According to this stance, they need to re-rate every Sims game and Tomb Raider game EVER because there are nude patches and adult content galore out there for them.
6:15 PM
So, why not mod all games to include nipples and get their attention redirected off the game makers onto the modders where it belongs. game makers did not do this -- and their games should not suffer. In all actuality its not under their control. I for one can't wait to see nipples on the next car I race.
6:15 PM
it is easier to blame the game maker then the modders and they ofcouse beleave that they need to bleam somone and the game makers are the best target.
(but no this is not right at all)
7:21 PM
john, why don't you make a quality game first, instead of bashing modders that made the last few games you made a bit more bearable hmm?
7:49 PM
Yeah, that's right.
John is going to make modders his bitch. ;)
10:09 PM
John Romero - I've hung out with you dude, you were cool when I met you, Now you are still cool, you just need to re-think before you speak, before you become (un-cool). Your supposed to Represent a head of industry (I still think you are.. though other people here might not think so). You are supposed to set an example. Even when you speak on behalf of the Game's industry - People listen.
Ok, I understand what you are saying, but it's not your fault, modders faults or anyone else’s fault.
I know that there are people on this site that are not from the USA, but the origin of this problem is in the USA and that problem is the ESRB.
I understand the games industry has matured over the past 25-30 years and things are Uber realistic. I understand that as games approach Movies in looks and surpass the movies in terms of Profits, but they are not movies. The ESRB was only developed to suggest - key word is SUGGEST, the appropriate age to sell a game to someone based on its content. Thanks to the ESRB, we have corporations/developers regulating themselves based on what the ESRB says and the ESRB is NOT A LAW, it’s a suggestion. You sell GTA to a 13yr old kid there is nothing LEGALLY WRONG with it. Now I will agree there has to be some common sense on the part of the developer, but views Sex and violence in the USA is just out of hand, you know if it was taught to be accepted and viewed for what it really is people would understand its use in fantasy settings.
Back in 1984 – the PMRC (parent’s music recourse center) went to congress to try to get them to pass a law on all music that was, to them, vulgar or against THEIR IDEAS of what they felt proper music content was. All top artist of the time (my 2 favorites Bob Denver and Dee Snider) artists went all off on the PMRC, and defended their positions the only result was the WARNING – Parental Advisory labels that we see on most Rap and metal CD’s these days, which was the record companies who publish music Giving in sort of, not the artist. Did you know that those labels are NOT REQUIRED by law to use those labels! If you started an inde or personal music label and Recorded an album, of yourself or an artist that your label represents, that had Vulgar language on it – or a musical message that was against the norm, you are not required by law to have that Label on it. You might have a hard time getting a record chain to sell it (Best Buy, Wal-Mart, Tower Records, Circuit City, FYE, ect…) but if you did sell it or find a retailer to carry it and sell it you do not Break any laws.
The ESRB is pretty much the same thing, they evaluate the games and give it a rating, the game company puts it on their box, because if they don’t Gamestop, EB, Best Buy, WALMART, ect… will not carry it and Game company know if they are not sold at Wal-Mart / Best Buy or EB-Gamestop, there is no chance to have a retail success. SO they take the ESRB rating and slap it on their package. The retailers have enbrased ESRB ratings and took it one step further; putting into their COMPANY POLICY that their employees check the age of the buyer to make sure it complies with the ESRB suggested age of purchase for all customers. Retailers have made it so if the employee does not check the age and the parent comes back complaining, even though the employee did not violate any Law, they did violate company policy and they get fired. Employees are not being governed by the ESRB or the Law, they are governed by the Companies they work for – so now you have 2 tiers of implementation for the ESRB’s Suggested rating, once at the development level as developers have to re-think every piece of content when shooting for a certain rating and on the retail level where fear of job loss makes employees treat videogames as if they are Beer, tobacco, or even XXX magazines .
Now for the modders, we all know that the EULA or the Copy write in most cases states you cannot modify its content. Well that is true to a sense, if you take a game home and change it’s content to suit your needs and distribute the whole game with content changed you violate the law. If you distribute the Modified content only, as long as it does not have copy written code in it or Trademarked Logo’s. The End-user who is using your mod in their game has to implement it into the code themselves there is no Violation at all. Yes you can argue that the Mod itself does entice users into breaking the EULA because the modder has given content that would force them to do so to use it. Then again you can argue that regardless of what the EULA says, you own the software and if you want to screw around with the code yourself and keep it to yourself – who cares. We all know that this is how some mods start, with people screwing around with what they shouldn’t be screwing around with, but that’s a slightly different argument that can go many ways and I don’t want to bore you all with the moralistic and Legal annals of what that argument entails.
We all know that most companies either endorse or look the other ways to many mods that pop up in the wild. We see map mods all the time, sometimes we see mods to the entire game that make the game a completely different experience. I have actually seen mods that you have to buy… Yes I know most of these mods are professionally done by content companies that buy a license to the engine they are making a mod for. But there are the rare cases that some super smart Geeky end-user mods an entire game himself and puts it online for download and it becomes haled as a must have mod, and I have yet to see someone try to charge money for it.
Also, many games give the end-user the ability to Mod or personalize games and that’s something that is completely the end-users responsibility. Now while I agree that if a game rated (EC) has a game editor that will allow the kid to put boobies or profanity in the game, that’s a bit irresponsible on the company’s part.
Though most Editors are not simple to use, they require some to a lot of skill on the modders part and usually if they are smart enough to understand what they are doing, they are probably smart enough to understand what they putting into the game as well. Do you really think that an end-user would put boobies or nakedness into a game because he/she knows it will cause some stir in the industry? I don’t think so. I think they do it because (A) they “think it’s cool” or because (B)“hey my friend asked me if I could do that and I wanted to prove I could” or lastly and most legitimately because it adds a level of detail that is realistic to the virtual world they are modding, and can legitimately pertain to making the world MORE REALISTIC. Nudity is a part of life, and we in America seem way uptight about nakedness, again though that’s a whole other issue for debate.
Now we have end-users modifying content with Nudity or grotesque images to make the game a bit more MATURE / Realisitic. This is what happened with Oblivion, the game it self is PG13 (Teen rated) By the ESRB. Because these mods have become SO POPULAR that they found their way back to the ESRB and they want to change the rating. If I was Bethesda I would tell the ESRB – F$%K you. They did not do this at all.
Game like Oblivion, actually encourage modification as they sell ADD ON PACKS themselves to help the game become more PERSONALISED, or map packs ect…
There are even editors to help the end-user make more personalized characters and add unique features. Even it’s mission editor encourages imagination and modding.
Because some user put tits on a NON HUMAN character the ESRB wants a (M) Ratting? I find that utterly absurd. Now you have Industry greats like John Romero Passing the blame of this onto the Modders. John you know as well as I do if every gamer (especially PC gamer) took the cookie cutter crap that is given to us by publishing houses and we all sat down and played what we bought and just put it away when we finished it the industry would be in severe danger. Modders bring innovation; they give gamers ANOTHER REASON to be interested in the game again or to play it a little longer. It even gives the really smart Modders Practice for enhancing their Development skills as these modders could be the NEXT BIG THING, or develop the next big idea in games.
John, think about it a bit then apologize to the modders of the world, some of them have made your games a bit more fun to play and have given them new life, when their life span was far beyond dead. Also for ever one Bad Modder there are about 1 million good modders, don’t let the one bad cookie be the reason the jar gets thrown away. I think it’s an honor as a developer to have your game modded and have that mod give your game new life. It kind of keeps you happy inside in terms of knowing you made something still being used, or at least provided the canvas for what is being remade and still played. Seriously how would you feel as a developer if you knew your game had its time and it never was going to come out of the end-users collection again for the entertainment of the person that bought it, kind of hurts huh?
You can take this argument on from many angles. I’m going to lay out my opinions and analogies here, while I know some of them at face value might be unrealistic and can have countless WHAT IF scenarios they prove my point that the ERSB is a retarded organization and that what they are doing to Bethesda and the Oblivion title is absurd.
A Kid and his Father go out and buy a car each, Dad buys a 500hp corvette for $60,000 and the kid buys a $20,000 Honda civic. Kid goes to a speed shop and had $10,000 worth of work done (all street legal) the shop upgrades not only the engine but the safety parts too to handle the extra speed, just to make it ethically safe senero. Now the kid has a 500hp car for $30,000 and kid can either keep up or beat his dad’s corvette in a drag race. The Kid then goes out one night and gets into a serious accident on a street whose speed limit is 55MPH and his accident takes place at 105 mph. Well the car could go 105 before the modification, the kid would probably drive it that fast whether he had the modification or not, and I am sure he would have tried to get his dad’s corvette up to 105 as well if daddy left him take it out. SO is it the speed shops fault? Is it the dads fault for encouraging his kid to have a car with 500HP because by example he bought a 500HP car? No one is to blame here. It’s the end users fault.
Take it a bit further…(before the accident)
Now because of this, all that kids friends all go out and soup-up their cars to 500HP + . Some of these kids Crash their cars, some get speeding tickets, others Drive them responsibly and just get off knowing they have a nice souped-up car. Do their parents (if their kids are under 18 – don’t apply to 18yr old + - unless they are still on Mom’s or Dad’s insurance policy, then I think the parent still has the right to an opinion, again though off the subject) have the right to blame the Speed shop, the Kid who started the idea of all this or even the father of that kid for anything? No they don’t.
The problem going on with Oblivion, has nothing to do with them their rating should still be (teen) (T).
Second Example. – I know it’s not 1980’s anymore but still a good example because it had some heated discussion when I was a kid.
Person goes out and buys a denim jacket. He/She takes it home and decides to spray or Draw or even sough on a naked woman or Grotesque night of the living dead scene onto the jacket and walk around with it. Young children see this while the jacket owner is in the mall, on the street or out in public in general. Kids go home and re-draw what they saw on the jacket, or other kids go out and buy a jacket and do the same thing? Should the Jacket Company not sell their jackets to kids? Should art supplies not be sold to kids or even to people who intend to alter the jacket with some artwork? I mean seriously, you walk into an art supply store and ask for air brushes and tell the guy you’re going to go home and paint a naked girl on your jacket, think he is going to deny you the sale? Even if you bought a Nude girl on a piece of material and told the sales person, I am going home to put this on a jacket, think they care? Either way, You’re still walking around with a naked person on your coat and I am sure many people would seem offended by this. IM sure people would stop you and ask you not to wear that anymore. If what you did to your jacket gives the idea to others to do the same should you be ridiculed for it, banned, re-rated? Should all the manufactures of any of the parts you used to modify your jack that offends certain people be governed or given Rules on whom to sell to? Should the Jacket be giving a rating or a Sales age? I know this sounds stupid but the example has some truth to it.
When I was a kid I had a denim jacket that had a Slayer album cover painted on it. The cover was very bloody and sadistic and the side of the jacket had suggestive looking girls on it (not part of the album cover, just additional artwork). Lastly it was covered in leather strips and hard studs. I got allot of grief for wearing that jacket, Do you know that Mall security wanted me to leave the mall for wearing it there. They took me to the mall office and asked I call my parents to pick me up and that I wasn’t allowed to wear my jacket in their mall. I was 15 yrs old. I told them are your F&*KEN Kidding me. I actually tried to walk out but they tried to restrain me (not by force) by closing the dorr before I could get out. Finally I opened the door and just walked out, but they followed me around until my parent showed up and asked that I give my jacket to my parents if I wanted to stay at the mall. Mall MGT claimed people felt offended by the scenes on my jacket and they felt I was causing a disturbance just by wearing it. Thinking about it, the ruckus they created was more of a problem than the jacket. Did I know I would get looks for wearing it? Yes I did. Did I ever think I would be asked to leave a public shopping venue? – NOPE. At the time I knew it was inappropriate for school and that I could wear it to school but it had to stay in my locker during class hours and if I needed a jacket during the day it could not be that one. I understood that, school was not a place for it. My parents told Mall Mgt that by doing what they did violated my rights; they would not take me home if I didn’t want to leave and they would not take my jacket home. It caused quite a problem, but at the end of the day, guess what, too bad for them. It was my jacket ill wear it where I want. I have every constitutional right to have an album cover on my jacket and every right to have a close to naked woman on my jacket – wasn’t like she was doing something obscene – then it would be a different story. (Yes the album cover had a Warning Parental advisory label on it when it came out). Called freedom of expression.
Again you see the problem here.
There are so many degrees or what right and what wrong. There is morality and there is responsibility. When these things are taken out of context the result is catastrophic in its long terms effects on similar situations.
I would love to see this, and here is a challenge for all you hackers out there. Take the Sweetest most lovable (E) or (T) rated game, like a **TENDO title or something family oriented. Create a Mod that give the main character or something in the game something that would jump the rating up one or two notches and release it for the people who embrace mods to install / Use.
How weird or controversial (this is only an example) would it be if someone gave Mario a nude skin – or even the princess for that matter, I would love to see the ESRB tell **TENDO (don’t want to say the full name – you know who I mean) your game is now rated Mature because some kid though it would be funny to make someone naked, who gave it to a friend who gives it to a friend – ect, ect, ect until that mod is the most JOYSTIQed or DUGG story of the day. Now that would be a fight to see. I know you are all saying, how could you mod a game like that and not violate copy write or the EULA or something, I don’t you could but if possible would love to see it done. Would be interesting if the Mod was able to be loaded onto a memory card using a simple PC / Memory card interface (for storing and reloading saves) and have the mod work from there and contain no “Stolen code”. That would be something… Again I know it would never happen, but just imagine if it did. Is it the modders fault? I don’t think so, but would start a new heated argument.
I want to close with the following.
John Romero – I hope my long rambling blog helps you rethink your view on modders and helps you keep your mouth shut in the future on issues that are so absurd to begin with, there was no need to bash modders or even give a view on the situation, you are above that. Remember to many people in the industry you are a valued resource.
To the ESRB – I wish you and the PMRC and all other Organizations that say your there for the good of informing the buying public, would just go away. I feel it’s the manufactures/developers job to make sure they truly inform people of what they are selling. I don’t think you need a big (M) or (AO) Rating on your box to do that. Organization like the ESRB truly enforce a viewpoint of the most text booked, conservative, and life-style judging people in the USA. We really need to be more open, we just keep creating organizations to tell people how to think, life, and act. If there’s a law, people will follow it, if they don’t and they get caught they pay the penalty, if there is no law we don’t need another organization laying out what they feel are right and wrong guidelines for how to behave, act, or think about something.
Bethesda / Oblivion creators – Fight the power! – Tell the ERSB F#^$K OFF! Tell them we gave you the game, didn’t hide any content and your rating was appropriate. They have no right to re-evaluate it because of a third party.
Bye for now,
Chris D
11:49 PM
The mod community is "dying" only because Johnny boy here no longer has any influence on it whatsoever. That's what you get for Daikatana.
12:01 AM
this is not new in any way. There has been semi-pornographic content to almost all games that have gotten a modcommunity. Few months after Half-life came out there was already nudeskins to download. Also the same mod that were all so upset for in Oblivion has been availaible for years in the previous game Morrowind.
I'm not sure if Doom (the original) had nude addons since i havent seen any but I'm pretty damn sure it did to. As soon as you let people do mods there will be good ones and there will be bad ones.
The way to go is not to ban the modding but for the game developers to have a great portal for this modding where they also moderate the content. In that way nude-mods will only be sbown on small marginalised underground sites where the young audience wont visit.
1:22 AM
The Sims 2 suffered the same fate. They were forced to change it so that if you bought the NightLife expansion you could no longer remove the blur to reveal the unrealistic barbie doll like nudity.
On that note this is the stupidest thing ever, the topless textures that are revealed are so unrealistic that it bears very little resemblance to reality anyway. So it's the same thing for these two games, some "waste of space, holier than thou" idiot! is now being allowed to call the shots. Compared to the outrageous porn and violence on the net at any child's fingertips, fighting against the glimpses of barbie doll like nudity is a COMPLETE WASTE of time and money!
And do not blame us modders for this, doing that is an all time low!
1:30 AM
Firstly, let me say that I agree with John. The industry may be thinking long and hard about releasing developer tools, and allowing access to the games data files in future.
I think there is more to think about though. Consider these points, all of which I feel are valid:-
1) Why on earth do these companies leave a couple of naked textures in there anyway? Policy should be to check textures of character models prior to release.
2) It's OK to murder, assault and steal your way through a game, but not to see some breasts? Oh dear, what is the world coming to? I think the priorities here are inverted.
3) You can modify ANY almost any game with the will power, and add in any textures you want. No level of encryption has stopped this in the past. Hackers always find a way in, if they are determined enough. Do we now need to start rating games on the 'potential to have nude images hacked into them'?
I think it's sad that such pedantic issues become such a tarnish for creative companies, and lets face it games like Oblivion sell hardware! If it wasn't for the likes of Doom, GTA, and Oblivion the whole PC market would be completely different right now.
Nudity is no worse than the violence. Some people need to start thinking long and hard about morality in this modern age.
I would rather my child take an interest in sex, than an interest in murder, theft and assault.
1:48 AM
There is one critical fact you got wrong. The nude file in question exist in its fully rendered form on every PC game disc sold.
Read ESRB's response to Bethesda's claim of innocence here. http://www.firingsquad.com/news/newsarticle.asp?searchid=10117
I find it disheartening for someone who seems to understand the reasoning why ESRB is doing the job they do and still bash them.
Because they took a pro-active approach and re-rated this game, they probably save Bethesda a ton of money and prevent a lot of politicians and lawyers like Jack Thompson more ammo to pass laws to regulate the gaming industy.
Pre-existing nude content is cause for a game to be rated Mature. Say I'm a developer that works for a website selling stuff. If I hid sexuel content on our website but I blocked it from casual people who surf our site, what do you think will happen?
Some hacker will break into my site, expose all the sexual content, post it on a website somewhere and 12 years old Miss Betty Sue next door will read it, follow the instructions, hack into my site, see the sexual content, tells her parent...
Betty Sue's parent will sue, I'll go to court and say, "Well, I didn't INTEND for people to crack my site and find it."
Hah, the prosecutor would snicker and start dreaming of how he will spend the millions of dollars that we will be sending to him and poor Betty Sue.
On the other hand, if the content was never there but a hacker broke into our site and added the sexual content, it would be a totally different story, now would it?
ESRB is right on this one and is doing their best to protect the interest of gamers everywhere, they deserve our support instead of the contempt I am seeing here. Without ESRB, politicians would have created their own Rating and Review board a long time ago and then gamers everywhere could kiss their violent games goodbye.
1:57 AM
I've been a modder for over 10 years, and I don't find this entry offensive. Is it because I have a sense of security? I know exactly what Romero's talking about, it's the ESRB spelling DEATH to the mod community because once they get a reality check on what nude mods that have already been done for every moddable game, the ratings would all be hitched up to AO. :rolling teh eyes:
3:14 AM
How big f*ck ESRB is. And.. I hate sims. It is full of boring. Games not made to reproduce life, they were to alter it. Look at TESIII: Morrowind. There were always a beter bodies nude patch. And who changed the ratings? NO-ONE. ESRB does what the politics and those m****ker middle class christian families, who drive their child to use oral sex instead of hitting the real hole. ESRB is a sick community of old m******rs screwing up the game industry to restore the early 60's' polite christian childs.
Bethesda has created a wonderful game and it have really have too many violence and gore...but wait. Does not make games playable? Like in doom the big splats of red textures called blood not earned mature rating? Because ESRB done nothing that times. Damned polithics.
Slaughter in-game not in reality! Its better.
3:20 AM
Sorry Romero, but Chris D. have a point.
3:23 AM
The modders isn't the problem, it's a society that thinks nudity is a bigger problem than violence.
3:41 AM
Modders screwing up the industry... I think that is BS... He added the adult content... so it wasn't in the retail game. Why should things like these affect the rating... I wouldn't blame the modders :|
7:19 AM
Blah BLAH BLAH WHO cares what ROMERO said.
5:34 AM
So... If I rip a Disney flick and add clips of porn here and there, disney needs to change their rating?
LAWL!
7:47 AM
I don't know much about John Romero's personality, and I haven't been a regular reader of whatever he might have been writing through out the years. All I know is his "common knowledge" past, up until the demise at Ion. And that he has once given suggestions regarding long-hair care to a female reader of PlanetQuake years ago, who has seen him on E3 I guess, and loved how healthy and good looking his hair was.
Judging from this single blog, he sounds so awfully trying to be politically correct.
There could even be a mod solely aimed for pornography, a mod in which NPCs actively portray sexual activities. It doesn't matter if the modders make such a mod only for the sake of pornography, or with a message in mind through a somewhat an extreme approach by common standards, or whatever. There's absolutely nothing wrong with any of these, as long as the modders don't advertise it like some "ride on the carousel" (no pun intended).
This whole thing portrays how twisted, or coward the people who think that developers like Beth might be held rightly accountable for what 3rd party does to a game. Politically correct or not, this includes John Romero as well.
Note that, I'm *not* talking about ESRB's decision here. I do believe in the necessity of a structure such as ESRB. Their decision might be questionable of course. After all you just can't simply replace parenting with ESRB. But that wasn't my point anyway. 3rd Part content it is.
At the end, it all comes down to parenting. Once more, parenting is tried to be degraded into a set of mechanic, lifeless rules so the parents could fuck around more freely.
Finally, I don't see any "going down" with the mod community. There are only more newbies and incompetent modders, a lot more "game developer rock star" wannabees than the veterans. One could call that good or bad, but it has nothing to do with mod community going somewhere. Especially now with whatever kinf of content they might be trying to create.
Is it possible that you may be calling it's going down only because of the statistical changes, ie. the ratio of newbie and non-talented modders to talented and veteran modders ( which is a meaningless point anyway, because of the lack of correlation of demographics between the two groups ) ?
Closure: Garbage - "Sex Is Not The Enemy"
3:17 PM
It is very faulty reasoning to think that the modders are to blame in this case, or even that they are causing any financial harm to Take Two or Bethesda. After all, one of the main reasons to buy Oblivion was because the buyer knew it would be provided with so many great mods. That was, in my opinion, the best reason to buy Morrowind. Therefore, the modding community for Morrowind and Oblivion has freely subsidized the sales of those games. I very much doubt that restricting sales to an older audience (with an ineffective ratings regime in any case) would outweigh that.
Although, in all fairness, it's something researchers would have to go out and quantify.
4:01 PM
I wish people would understand this: The ESRB is not changing the rating because of mods, it's changing the rating becuase the topless model IS ON THE DISK! The ESRB doesn't care if the topless model is accessable in the game, they only care that it's on the disk to begin with.
4:40 PM
Yes, the nude file was included on the CD, but there is a reason for this. It is so much easier designing clothing and armor when you have a good replica of the human body. This makes it easier on the designers to texture and skin the game to make it look as realistic as possible.
12:39 AM
TESIV:Oblivion deserves an M rating, not because of potential nudity, but because of the detailed blood, gore, violence and dark themes present during some plot lines (the Dark Brotherhood in particular). ESRB did the right thing, but for the wrong reason, and much too late. This should have been done properly before the game was shipped.
JR Wrote: "You'll probably start seeing game data files becoming encrypted and the open door on assets getting slammed shut just to keep modders from financially screwing the company they should be helping."
That would certainly be a mistake on the developers' part. It has been proven time again that a vibrant third party mod community keeps a game alive and generates sales well past its prime. Half-Life, Neverwinter Nights and TESIII:Morrowind are all good examples of this. It is also a major selling point for new games. I can only speak for myself, but during the last year I got 5 games I would never have bought unless I knew they were moddable, and had an active modding community.
3:02 AM
whether or not oblivion deserves a m rating i cannot say.
however bethseda is not responsible for the plugin in question, they are not responsible for the third party hacking ito the file.
bethseda is only tobe held responsible for the content with in the mentioned third pary plug in, it beloned to bethseda in the first place.
the plugin never should have been mentioned and put on sites like TESource and planetelderscrolls.
the community itself in this way is to blame over this.
however whats done is done.
personally id like to know exactly what the ERSB considers porn, as i dont consider nudity or partial nudity porn.
however i still think its somewhat funny, as we condone our children seeing violence in movies and games, but an exposed female breast is not okay????
there are people laughing at this both here in the USA and in Europe.
PArents, you are responsible for your children, you must pay attention to what games they play and movies they watch, take the time to be with them and you MUST judge what is okay for them to do both in your presence and not in your prensence.
the ERSB should advise, not tell you what to do.
3:19 AM
This rerating has no relevance at all to modding, or to game developers.
It's Bethesda's slip to leave the a render of exposed breasts in the game data that can easily be substituted for the existing covered one. All they had to do was delete one .nif file before going gold, and none of this would have occurred.
The mod community would have subsequently made its own nude mods, Bethesda would be free of any blame, and the ESRB would have no cause to rerate the game.
To quote the ESRB, from http://www.dlmag.com/1516/esrb-responds-to-oblivion-criticism.html
"The ESRB's investigation found that the mod allowed users to change the filename for the female character mesh in order to access the art file that was created by Bethesda. While true that a modification was required to access this file, the changes we implemented last year - expanding our disclosure rules to include locked-out content - were made to prevent these kinds of situations."
IE: It's Bethesda's fault for leaving a file containing breasts in the game. The nude mod was just the way the ESRB discovered it.
Developers don't need to prevent their games from being modified, they simply need to check that they're clean carefully before releasing them.
3:30 AM
I realize this post is going to be at the bottom of the list and is quite late, but I don't really care.
Considering the fact that Romero's last game was a complete piece of shit, and that he and Derek Smart are now of the same rank in the industry (that of the unwanted, unloved black sheep), I think the man needs to keep his fucking mouth shut.
Oblivion Modders should be praised for the free content they release, made with tools PROVIDED BY Bethesda, which add an amazing amount of content, fixes, patches and improvements to an already amazing game. The more modders there are, the better the game experience will be.
Fact of the matter is, Bethesda did this to themselves by making the models able to become topless in the first place. All they did was add a line of code that places the "Bra" model over the tits of the female characters. The modders removed the line of code. If they didn't intend to show nipple-less, strangely textured breasts, it was their own responsibility to make sure that if someone wanted naked chicks in Oblivion, they'd have to model the breasts themselves. And they didn't do that.
Bethesda can't complain. ROMERO shouldn't complain because 1) He's a fuck up, and 2) He didn't make the god damn game.
I guess I should throw in my opinion that the ESRB are a bunch of gutless pussies too afraid of getting sacked to stand up for free speach, creativity and innovation. Man, America sucks.
5:03 AM
I have NO CLUE what the point of this statement is:
What's the point of this all this? That modders are now screwing up the industry they're supposed to be helping. In 1993 we opened up all our data to the industrious and ambitious folks out there who want to see what it's like to be able to make their favorite game a little more like what they'd want.....and get a taste of being a semi-game designer in the process. The most awesome example of what this philosophy has brought is CounterStrike.
That has to be one of the most idiotic comments I have seen yet. Fact is ESRB is busted, this is a silly change for Oblivion as well as for GTA. This is a ridicules comment made by someone I think of as an industry leader.
9:59 AM
Modders are not to blame for the current plight of the videogame industry when it comes to nudity and sex in videogames.
The villian in all of this is the ESRB and the fact that they have sided with anti-videogame politicians and wackos like Jack Thompson in an effort to look good in the media.
Modding was NEVER an issue until the recent anti-videogame movement got lots of publicity. Now the ESRB would rather unjustly punish developers for something that has gone on for years instead of growing a pair of balls and standing up for what is right, and saying that nude patches, etc are outside of the scope of their ratings system.
The ESRB is the one destroying the videogame industry, and unless they change their policies real soon expect dark days ahead for gamedom.
www.newlevelgaming.com
11:27 AM
I have Oblivion, and I tried out this nudity mod to see what all the fuss was about. Some people seem to be under the impression that the mod is completely to blame for this. As far as I can tell, this is not the case:
Oblivion's unclothed females wear, by default, a bra and panties. As far as I can tell, what the modder did was to make a new version of the bra 3D model which is invisible, allowing the skin texture underneath to be seen. This alone didn't justify the re-rating. However, Bethesda seem to have overlooked the fact that the skin texture, although hidden by the bra by default, had nipples drawn on. If they'd simply made the texture completely smooth in the 'naughty areas' then, in my opinion, there'd have been no justification for the ESRB to re-rate the game. The nipples, which were hidden by the bra or other clothing, are what caused the ESRB re-rating. All the modder did was to reveal that they were there.
What it comes down to is this: Game developers need to know that if they leave any hidden assets in the game, modders are going to unlock them, so they'd better either make sure that the hidden assets aren't going to affect the rating, or they should remove them completely.
If I'm wrong about this, and the modder did indeed make the bra invisible *and* drew nipples onto the skin textures, then the ESRB are a bunch of idiots and seriously need to rethink their policies.
8:04 PM
The "mature" rating is quite normal with such a game.
There is a lot of violence involved in the game.
A game that allows the gamer to be able to kill or steal should always be rated "M".
The nudity thing has nothing to do in this matter.
And about modders, they don't have to support, defend or whatever the editor nor the developper of this game. We are customers.
If we cannot play, mod anyway we want, with games that are supposed to be customized like Oblivion is, I don't want this game anymore.
I bought it for what I could do with it, not only for what it proposed "by default" when I did my purchase.
Oblivion not moddable? Keep your game, I want my money back.
11:43 PM
This is Chris Jones from http://www.universeatwar.org/cjones
Have these people looked at the Star Trek game Modding community? Myself and countless other modders have kept the Trek gaming franchise alive and kicking for a long time, way beyond the game's original intent. Most modders have integrity when releasing mods for a game. A few don't but we are dealing with humans here. Not all have honor. Romero does not either, apparently. He does not know how to mod anything, I'll bet.
11:54 PM
Some of you people need to go back to school and learn a thing or two about reading comprehension.
12:17 PM
I'll never understand the bureaucracy. First of all it is a game, if you (the politicians) have nothing better to do with our tax dollars than decide the morality we should follow your in the wrong office. You were hired by the people for the people, not to inflict your own personal political agenda on us. We (the people) will decide if we want to purchase the game with whatever content it provides. Just give us the low down on the box we'll take it from there. By the way I wonder how much profanity rates in a game. Not to distract us to much from Oblivion, but you can download a mod for the Sims 2 that gives full sex and other oral stimulation, and I don't recall that game being targetted. I for one enjoy the realism of a full nude model in the game, both male and female and costuming them up. It is a fantasy game and should offer all aspects of the fantasy world. I'm sure the parents will monitor their children and if they don't then the gaming industry would be the least of their worries. As a minister, I find nothing offensive about the human body in its natural form, and in game context the use of said form. I recently opened a National Geographic with ads that were racier than this mod controversy. So in conclusion, get a life, feed the poor, buy books for our school children, shelter the homeless and stop the senseless waste of tax payer dollars on subjects better left inside the home.
7:12 AM
I've been Playing doom since i was five years old. I'm no different now because i was playing a game for it's rating. i have the same problem with people Blaming Marilyn manson for colombine. if it was really THAT big of a deal right off the bat,no one would have noticed. also,i have seen the hotcoffee mod. it's crap.
If the ratings board thinks for 30 seconds that this will slow sales of any games,they're wrong. i purchased GTA:SanAn without my ID card nor was I asked. most stores and gamers i know pay little or know attention to the ratings of a game. Would tetris be rated M if there was an oversized dot on each piece resembling a female nipple? i think not.
1:38 PM
"13 years for this situation to arise"
Mr. Romero, where have you been? I have had nude mods for games for well over a decade. Wolf3D, Doom, the list goes on forever. I have even created some, while taking a break from making realistic medieval content.
Your tone in attacking the modders is deplorable. Shame on you.
This full blown assault on our freedom and on game companies by the rating Nazis has nothing to do with modders. It has been happening in every medium. It is simply an attampt to control. And your condemning those who have only been a benefit to game companies will not help the situation. It will only cause people like myself to never purchase a product associated with you.
These fascists are only using modders as an excuse to force their will upon others. If modders were not the reason, then something else would be.
And here I thought they changed the rating because some Orc yells to "buy a God damn book".
What's next? A game company being mass arrested because some guy shoots his family over a drug problem?
Execute every person who is involved with any kind of rating system, publicly, and the problem will remedy itself.
8:58 AM
You know the game was misreported to the ESRB for violence, blood, and gore, and the ESRB even said this. If the skin was never there in the game in the first place, the ESRB would have had nothing to go on. Of course, this is all a joke that the video game industry needs to be regulated in some way. It's because people cannot claim responsibility for their actions. If somebody screws up, it wasn't their fault, it was the fault of "insert form of entertainment here". Joe Lieberman sucks.
10:06 AM
Two Things:
-The MAIN reason OB was rerated was for the violence, NOT the nudity.
-The nude skin WAS included with the game, it was NOT a modder add-on. Anybody with half a brain could go ahead and enable it.
11:46 AM
I my Country, Texas, we dont need nudity in games, we just find our own women
11:06 PM
All this will lead to is developers having to twist the law, and modder's becoming extinct.
Locked content is horrible for PC gaming. It is why we thrive. I cannot imagine having no ability to mod the games I play. It gives me hopes of being noticed one day before I finish my degree(or after), and getting a nice ride with a game company.
I'd just play a console if I just wanted to play. PC gaming is ALL ABOUT the mods. All about patches and add-ons.
I can only hope that a developer puts their foot down on the ESRB and takes away their ability to change a rating after the game has been released.
Either that, or I recommend producers start working on NR games... (Not Rated) and taking after movies. Since now-a-days, movies have to do that to add their extra features without getting NC-17+ ratings.
I used to support the ESRB... but after Hot Coffee and watching them fold to the media, I have no respect for them anymore.
I'd write a letter... but I use too many Ellipses... :)
9:06 AM
MR. Romero---( and other gaming gods that have lost their minds)---the ESRB needs to get a clue; as do all the major game companies.They peddle their almost non-playable games upon us; expect us to enhance the gameplay and graphics, fix bugs or whatever, then want to kick us in the head when we add something , or in this case, find something, a little risque'.
This re-rating was, probably, correct, in the fact that it was on the original cd, placed there by bethesda.Do I agree with it? No.Do I agree with you , when you said modders are at fault here? Hell no.Do I think you , and others like you, need to take a step back and look at what you are doing with these games; all the doom clones, 40+ hour bland plotline games, nude art hidden on the cd, and then paying 60 bucks for it; yes I sure do. YOU are ruining the game industry, by completely forgetting why you did this in the first p0lace: cause.....it....was....FUN.
The modders add that now missing piece of fun to today's overhyped, undercontented games.....and yet you want to say it's their fault for finding this stuff? You have gone over the deep end.........
6:27 PM
Dear Mr. Romero:
Let me see if I understand your position correctly:
1) Since the nude skins in question were not added by a mod but simply revealed by one, your basic assertion is that the modding community is entirely responsible for Bethesda artists creating the nude skins which shipped with the game CD.
2) Since the nude skins do not appear in the game but were only used to create armor and other clothing items that fit well and looked right and could have been deleted from the CD before it shipped without affecting gameplay in any way, your assertion is that the modding community is entirely responsible for the game's developers not deleting the nude skins used by the artists before they shipped the CD.
3) Lastly, the reason the ESRB gave for re-rating the game was that there was nude content in it. Your assertion is that the developers are entirely blameless for creating it in the first place, entirely blameless for leaving it on the CD, and entirely blameless for not telling the ESRB about it. The fault and responsibility falls entirely on the modding community, not those who actually created the content in the first place.
Sir, if this truly is your position on this issue, I find I must strongly disagree with all three of your assertations.
6:01 PM
F*CK THE ESRB
if there going to change everuy good game that comes out to M or A then we should not even check the rateings
F*CK YOU ESRB
9:21 PM
Actually, the nudity was already in the data, it just wasn't unlockable in the game. A modder found that the females' bras were seperate items that were easily removed. When Bethesda put out their patch to fix the bugs in the game, the patch also fixed the character skin. Now games with both the nude patch and the official patch have female characters without nipples, yet the bra is still removed by the first patch.
Obviously the information above is not correct. This is just like the GTA hack. In Oblivion, the patch removes clothes, it doesn't create a new skin for the characters.
Many nude mods have been created for Oblivion. And just like the mods for new races or Cloud's buster sword, the ESRB couldn't care less what the mod is. What the ESRB cares about is what Bethesda is distributing, and it containes adult content. Therefore- M rating.
I don't blame anyone for being upset about it, but I just want to put the facts straight for everyone. The nudity was in the game. It was designed by one or more of the employees of Bethesda. They probably got fired. Be mad at the guys that got fired, not the ones that found the nudity while trying to make a mod for it. Unofficial mods aren't looked at by the ESRB, so you can only blame the developers for doing the job meant for the modders.
10:14 PM
It's a sad state of affairs when civilised society is offended by our own naked form. No-one in Oblivion is fucking, this is another misguided over-reaction.
We're all naked when we take off our clothes. A nation that gets so worked up over some nipples needs to take a long hard look at itself before it points this finger.
3:54 PM
How could something like this be dubbed "another videogame sex scandal"? So they design a character wireframe that doesn't have clothing on.. Big deal! (In this case I guess it is) ESRB might as well just rate all 3D games 'M' because I guaruntee all the characters were nude wire-frames with a skin texture at one point. Of course it's built into the game!It has to be! That is how a sprite is designed. It's simple really, Without clothing the character would be naked; as such: without a character there could be no clothing design. To design a layout you need a character without any bulk, and don't say "but they could have underwear" because they do. The fact that someone found a way to take the in-game clothing and discard it doesn't make the game itself "dirty" or "scandalous". Perhaps "risqué", but then again what isn't nowadays? I'm sure that a teen audience (13-17) can handle a little skin. (Have you been to the beach lately?) As my final point I'd like to state that Bethesda specifically designed a set of clothing to cover up any and all shreds of nudity. If a person can figure out how to make that disapear, good for them! But should you tamper with it's rating because someone found out how?
This is just another example of overprotective censorship.
9:13 AM
Well..Im mad because now i cant even get the freaking game..And sadly i dont have an xbox..*sigh* guess i cant enjoy oblivion til im 17..Or until i move out of the house..
8:15 PM
If Bethesda had let the ESRB know about the fact they were shooting for a T rating & they (the ESRB) had seen the file the first time they checked it then it would be rated T not M AKA it's ALL the ESRB's fault for not being efficiant enough to see it the first time through & send it back to Bethesda. TA-DA!!!!!!!! We know who to blame now, not modders (they just brought this to our attention), not Bethesda (sort-of: if they DID let the ESRB know they wanted T then it's not their fault at all), but the ESRB {(this note is to the employers at the ESRB [if they read this stuff]) get better workers on these things fire the idiots who overlooked this and get more efficiant people on this stuff}. Problem solved!!! All of you can stop blabbering about this and play the darn game!
2:02 PM
I have to agree here with most the comments, for a modder to go in and change the way a game performs is fine. Now the game should be rated "as is" and not as what a modder changes on the game.
I however dont think its effected the sales of Oblivion much from the people and contact I know its still one of the best roleplay style games out on the market. I believe G3 gave them a 5/5 rating which is pretty tough to achieve.
We also dont want to punish into the modding community or disable modding completely would ruin the sell value of a game. Then you would be unable to update/expand onto any game if it came down to that. Consider "Expansions" "Patches" down to the code they are only Mods to improve upon the game.
11:15 AM
As for the content already in the game. Yes it appears that in the meshes its already in the game you take the malenude top and replace it on the femaletop to essentially make it nude. Its obvious that it was not intended to be copied over and made that way and the fact that the body mesh has "nipples" already with it was probably used for building 3D meshes such as the armor to display a bit more correctly.
I guess the fact of the matter is it wasnt intended to be used in this matter and a 'code expert' went in and modified essential files to change the way the game behaves. Its not like they made the game to where you strip off your clothing and run around naked.
11:20 AM
umm..you guys know that the nude skins were already in the game right. Modders didnt add the nude skins, they just simply remved the clothing over the skin, so bethesda is the ones who made the nude ksins, all they did was cover them up with clothes.
10:52 AM
This would be the same as if a rated E Mario game was hacked and the character models were replaced with nude ones, so the ESRB re-rates it to M. The ESRB is a bunch of idiots nowadays.
6:49 PM
情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,按摩棒,震動按摩棒,微調按摩棒,情趣按摩棒,逼真按摩棒,G點,跳蛋,跳蛋,跳蛋,性感內衣,飛機杯,充氣娃娃,情趣娃娃,角色扮演,性感睡衣,SM,潤滑液,威而柔,香水,精油,芳香精油,自慰套,自慰,性感吊帶襪,吊帶襪,情趣用品加盟AIO交友愛情館,情人歡愉用品,美女視訊,情色交友,視訊交友,辣妹視訊,美女交友,嘟嘟成人網,成人網站,A片,A片下載,免費A片,免費A片下載情人歡愉用品,情趣用品,成人網站,情人節禮物,情人節,AIO交友愛情館,情色,情色貼圖,情色文學,情色交友,色情聊天室,色情小說,七夕情人節,色情,情色電影,色情網站,辣妹視訊,視訊聊天室,情色視訊,免費視訊聊天,美女視訊,視訊美女,美女交友,美女,情色交友,成人交友,自拍,本土自拍,情人視訊網,視訊交友90739,生日禮物,情色論壇,正妹牆,免費A片下載,AV女優,成人影片,色情A片,成人論壇,情趣,情境坊歡愉用品,免費成人影片,成人電影,成人影城,愛情公寓,成人影片,保險套,舊情人,微風成人,成人,成人遊戲,成人光碟,色情遊戲,跳蛋,按摩棒,一夜情,男同志聊天室,肛交,口交,性交,援交,免費視訊交友,視訊交友,一葉情貼圖片區,性愛,視訊,視訊聊天,A片,A片下載,免費A片,嘟嘟成人網,寄情築園小遊戲,女同志聊天室,免費視訊聊天室,一夜情聊天室,聊天室愛情公寓,情色,舊情人,情色貼圖,情色文學,情色交友,色情聊天室,色情小說,一葉情貼圖片區,情色小說,色情,色情遊戲,情色視訊,情色電影,aio交友愛情館,色情a片,一夜情,辣妹視訊,視訊聊天室,免費視訊聊天,免費視訊,視訊,視訊美女,美女視訊,視訊交友,視訊聊天,免費視訊聊天室,情人視訊網,影音視訊聊天室,視訊交友90739,成人影片,成人交友,美女交友,微風成人,嘟嘟成人網,成人貼圖,成人電影,A片
5:51 AM
禪師和小偷
紙為媒
腳下的風景
一元錢借貸
遠方的燈光
盲人不盲
不妙的想像
思想，是你的人生部隊長
人生沒有回頭路
被遊戲拯救
enjoy the life
當資本遇上智慧
鎖定目標，追求高績效
心理平衡是好心情的導師
it’s healthy for u
南轅北轍
抱怨上級不如低頭反省自己
傳遞愛心
有想法，更要有行動
你現下的心情對嗎
愛要刻在石頭上
開始下雨
外面的雨漸漸小了
血腥瑪莉
明天休息
下次見
6:17 PM
情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,按摩棒,跳蛋,充氣娃娃,情境坊歡愉用品,情趣用品,情人節禮物,情惑用品性易購
免費A片,AV女優,美女視訊,情色交友,免費AV,色情網站,辣妹視訊,美女交友,色情影片,成人影片,成人網站,A片,H漫,18成人,成人圖片,成人漫畫,情色網,日本A片,免費A片下載,性愛
A片,色情,成人,做愛,情色文學,A片下載,色情遊戲,色情影片,色情聊天室,情色電影,免費視訊,免費視訊聊天,免費視訊聊天室,一葉情貼圖片區,情色,情色視訊,免費成人影片,視訊交友,視訊聊天,視訊聊天室,言情小說,愛情小說,AIO,AV片,A漫,av dvd,聊天室,自拍,情色論壇,視訊美女,AV成人網,色情A片,SEX
情趣用品,A片,免費A片,AV女優,美女視訊,情色交友,色情網站,免費AV,辣妹視訊,美女交友,色情影片,成人網站,H漫,18成人,成人圖片,成人漫畫,成人影片,情色網
情趣用品,A片,免費A片,日本A片,A片下載,線上A片,成人電影,嘟嘟成人網,成人,成人貼圖,成人交友,成人圖片,18成人,成人小說,成人圖片區,微風成人區,成人文章,成人影城,情色,情色貼圖,色情聊天室,情色視訊,情色文學,色情小說,情色小說,臺灣情色網,色情,情色電影,色情遊戲,嘟嘟情人色網,麗的色遊戲,情色論壇,色情網站,一葉情貼圖片區,做愛,性愛,美女視訊,辣妹視訊,視訊聊天室,視訊交友網,免費視訊聊天,美女交友,做愛影片
av,情趣用品,a片,成人電影,微風成人,嘟嘟成人網,成人,成人貼圖,成人交友,成人圖片,18成人,成人小說,成人圖片區,成人文章,成人影城,愛情公寓,情色,情色貼圖,色情聊天室,情色視訊,情色文學,色情小說,情色小說,色情,寄情築園小遊戲,情色電影,aio,av女優,AV,免費A片,日本a片,美女視訊,辣妹視訊,聊天室,美女交友,成人光碟
情趣用品.A片,情色,情色貼圖,色情聊天室,情色視訊,情色文學,色情小說,情色小說,色情,寄情築園小遊戲,情色電影,色情遊戲,色情網站,聊天室,ut聊天室,豆豆聊天室,美女視訊,辣妹視訊,視訊聊天室,視訊交友網,免費視訊聊天,免費A片,日本a片,a片下載,線上a片,av女優,av,成人電影,成人,成人貼圖,成人交友,成人圖片,18成人,成人小說,成人圖片區,成人文章,成人影城,成人網站,自拍,尋夢園聊天室
11:07 PM
免費視訊聊天,辣妹視訊,視訊交友網,美女視訊,視訊交友,視訊交友90739,成人聊天室,視訊聊天室,視訊聊天,視訊聊天室,情色視訊,情人視訊網,視訊美女,一葉情貼圖片區,免費視訊聊天室,免費視訊,ut聊天室,聊天室,豆豆聊天室,尋夢園聊天室,聊天室尋夢園,影音視訊聊天室
威而柔,自慰套,自慰套,SM,充氣娃娃,充氣娃娃,潤滑液,飛機杯,按摩棒,跳蛋,性感睡衣,威而柔,自慰套,自慰套,SM,充氣娃娃,充氣娃娃,潤滑液,飛機杯,按摩棒,跳蛋,性感睡衣
情惑用品性易購,情境坊歡愉用品
色情遊戲,寄情築園小遊戲,情色文學,一葉情貼圖片區,情境坊歡愉用品,情惑用品性易購,情人視訊網,辣妹視訊,情色交友,成人論壇,情色論壇,愛情公寓,情色,舊情人,情色貼圖,色情聊天室,色情小說,做愛,做愛影片,性愛
情境坊歡愉用品,情惑用品性易購,aio交友愛情館,一葉情貼圖片區,情趣用品
徵信社,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣精品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,情趣用品
辣妹視訊,美女視訊,視訊交友網,視訊聊天室,視訊交友,視訊美女,免費視訊,免費視訊聊天,視訊交友90739,免費視訊聊天室,成人聊天室
網拍設計,網頁設計
2:37 AM
情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,A片,A片,情色,A片,A片,情色,A片,A片,情趣用品,A片,情趣用品,A片,情趣用品,a片,情趣用品
A片,A片,AV女優,色情,成人,做愛,情色,AIO,視訊聊天室,SEX,聊天室,自拍,AV,情色,成人,情色,aio,sex,成人,情色
免費A片,美女視訊,情色交友,免費AV,色情網站,辣妹視訊,美女交友,色情影片,成人影片,成人網站,H漫,18成人,成人圖片,成人漫畫,情色網,日本A片,免費A片下載,性愛
情色文學,色情A片,A片下載,色情遊戲,色情影片,色情聊天室,情色電影,免費視訊,免費視訊聊天,免費視訊聊天室,一葉情貼圖片區,情色視訊,免費成人影片,視訊交友,視訊聊天,言情小說,愛情小說,AV片,A漫,AVDVD,情色論壇,視訊美女,AV成人網,成人交友,成人電影,成人貼圖,成人小說,成人文章,成人圖片區,成人遊戲,愛情公寓,情色貼圖,色情小說,情色小說,成人論壇
A片,A片,A片下載,做愛,成人電影,.18成人,日本A片,情色小說,情色電影,成人影城,自拍,情色論壇,成人論壇,情色貼圖,情色,免費A片,成人,成人網站,成人圖片,AV女優,成人光碟,色情,色情影片,免費A片下載,SEX,AV,色情網站,本土自拍,性愛,成人影片,情色文學,成人文章,成人圖片區,成人貼圖
5:48 AM
自
野球・バッティング・上達野球・バッティング・講座野球・バッティング・練習野球・打撃・フォーム野球・練習・ネット野球・練習法野球・練習・方法野球・練習・メニュー野球・練習方法・バッティング野球・練習・バッティング野球・素振り・バット野球・教本野球・スイング野球・スイング・基本野球・スイング・フォーム野球・スイング・動画野球・スイング・写真野球・スイング・軌道野球・レベルスイング野球・アッパースイング野球・バッティング・フォームバッティング・理論バッティング・練習バッティング・フォームバッティングとはバッティング・コツバッティング・基本バッティング・指導バッティング・練習・通販バッティング・講座バッティング・上達バッティング・フォーム・連続写真打撃・理論打撃・練習打撃・フォーム・動画打撃・上達素振りの仕方ダウンスイング・野球アッパースイング 矯正スイングスピード 野球少年野球 指導少年野球 練習方法少年野球 バッティング 指導少年野球 コーチ中学 野球 練習ホームランバッターになる方法小学生 野球 トレーニング子供 野球 指導中学 野球 指導小学生 野球 指導学童野球 練習方法野球 指導 DVD野球 指導 動画高校野球 強打者年金 厚 厚 厚 厚 社 遺 厚 障 国 国 共 公 個 確 適 老 加 寡 年 離 厚 厚 厚車車農オ車車全労労労派雇失高妊出出産ババカ比比比保保保保保保自葉セ犬不犬犬子包年J車車車任任任任包包仮真カ子包ク包包包包全団子妊生う性自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自自価火火火家軽軽車く車車メールテクニックメール恋愛術メール口説き方メール口説くメール女友達メール誘いメール誘い方愛情表現メール恋愛メールテクニック携帯メールテクニックケータイ メルテク恋愛メール術ケータイメール術携帯メール術恋メール術もてるメール術モテメール術脈ありメール恋愛脈ありメール脈あり脈なしメール女脈ありメールもてる方法モテル方法モテる方法
4:15 AM
徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信公司 徵信網徵信外遇徵信 徵信抓姦 徵信外遇 徵信徵信社 徵信社 抓姦徵信社 徵信社徵信社
8:31 AM
情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣用品,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,情趣,美國aneros,rudeboy,英國rudeboy,英國Rocksoff,德國Fun Factory,Fun Factory,英國甜筒造型按摩座,甜筒造型按摩座,英國Rock Chic ,瑞典 Lelo ,英國Emotional Bliss,英國 E.B,荷蘭 Natural Contours,荷蘭 N C,美國 OhMiBod,美國 OMB,Naughti Nano ,音樂按摩棒,ipod按摩棒,美國 The Screaming O,美國TSO,美國TOPCO,美國Doc Johnson,美國CA Exotic,美國CEN,美國Nasstoy,美國Tonguejoy,英國Je Joue,美國Pipe Dream,美國California Exotic,美國NassToys,美國Vibropod,美國Penthouse,仿真按摩棒,矽膠按摩棒,猛男倒模,真人倒模,仿真倒模,PJUR,Zestra,適趣液,穿戴套具,日本NPG,雙頭龍,FANCARNAL,日本NIPPORI,日本GEL,日本Aqua Style,美國WET,費洛蒙,費洛蒙香水,仿真名器,av女優,打炮,做愛,性愛,口交,吹喇叭,肛交,魔女訓練大師,無線跳蛋,有線跳蛋,震動棒,震動保險套,震動套,TOY-情趣用品,情趣用品網,情趣購物網,成人用品網,情趣用品討論,成人購物網,鎖精套,鎖精環,持久環,持久套,拉珠,逼真按摩棒,名器,超名器,逼真老二,電動自慰,自慰,打手槍,仿真女郎,SM道具,SM,性感內褲,仿真按摩棒,pornograph,hunter系列,h動畫,成人動畫,成人卡通,情色動畫,情色卡通,色情動畫,色情卡通,無修正,禁斷,人妻,極悪調教,姦淫,近親相姦,顏射,盜攝,偷拍,本土自拍,素人自拍,公園露出,街道露出,野外露出,誘姦,迷姦,輪姦,凌辱,痴漢,痴女,素人娘,中出,巨乳,調教,潮吹,av,a片,成人影片,成人影音,線上影片,成人光碟,成人無碼,成人dvd,情色影音,情色影片,情色dvd,情色光碟,航空版,薄碼,色情dvd,色情影音,色情光碟,線上A片,免費A片,A片下載,成人電影,色情電影,TOKYO HOT,SKY ANGEL,一本道,SOD,S1,ALICE JAPAN,皇冠系列,老虎系列,東京熱,亞熱,武士系列,新潮館,情趣用品,情趣,情趣商品,情趣網站,跳蛋,按摩棒,充氣娃娃,自慰套,G點,性感內衣,情趣內衣,角色扮演,生日禮物,生日精品,自慰,打手槍,潮吹,高潮,後庭,情色論譠,影片下載,遊戲下載,手機鈴聲,音樂下載,開獎號碼,統一發票號碼,夜市,統一發票對獎,保險套,做愛,減肥,美容,瘦身,當舖,軟體下載,汽車,機車,手機,來電答鈴,週年慶,美食,徵信社,網頁設計,網站設計,室內設計,靈異照片,同志,聊天室,運動彩券,大樂透,威力彩,搬家公司,除蟲,偷拍,自拍,無名破解,av女優,小說,民宿,大樂透開獎號碼,大樂透中獎號碼,威力彩開獎號碼,討論區,痴漢,懷孕,美女交友,交友,日本av,日本,機票,香水,股市,股市行情, 股市分析,租房子,成人影片,免費影片,醫學美容,免費算命,算命,姓名配對,姓名學,姓名學免費,遊戲,好玩遊戲,好玩遊戲區,線上遊戲,新遊戲,漫畫,線上漫畫,動畫,成人圖片,桌布,桌布下載,電視節目表,線上電視,線上a片,線上掃毒,線上翻譯,購物車,身分證製造機,身分證產生器,手機,二手車,中古車,法拍屋,歌詞,音樂,音樂網,火車,房屋,情趣用品,情趣,情趣商品,情趣網站,跳蛋,按摩棒,充氣娃娃,自慰套, G點,性感內衣,情趣內衣,角色扮演,生日禮物,精品,禮品,自慰,打手槍,潮吹,高潮,後庭,情色論譠,影片下載,遊戲下載,手機鈴聲,音樂下載,開獎號碼,統一發票,夜市,保險套,做愛,減肥,美容,瘦身,當舖,軟體下載,汽車,機車,手機,來電答鈴,週年慶,美食,徵信社,網頁設計,網站設計,室內設計,靈異照片,同志,聊天室,運動彩券,,大樂透,威力彩,搬家公司,除蟲,偷拍,自拍,無名破解, av女優,小說,民宿,大樂透開獎號碼,大樂透中獎號碼,威力彩開獎號碼,討論區,痴漢,懷孕,美女交友,交友,日本av ,日本,機票,香水,股市,股市行情,股市分析,租房子,成人影片,免費影片,醫學美容,免費算命,算命,姓名配對,姓名學,姓名學免費,遊戲,好玩遊戲,好玩遊戲區,線上遊戲,新遊戲,漫畫,線上漫畫,動畫,成人圖片,桌布,桌布下載,電視節目表,線上電視,線上a片,線上a片,線上翻譯,購物車,身分證製造機,身分證產生器,手機,二手車,中古車,法拍屋,歌詞,音樂,音樂網,借錢,房屋,街頭籃球,找工作,旅行社,六合彩,婚友,單身聯誼,未婚聯誼,婚友,交友,交友,婚友社,婚友社,婚友社,大陸新娘,大陸新娘,越南新娘,越南新娘,外籍新娘,外籍新娘,台中坐月子中心,搬家公司,搬家公司,中和搬家,台北搬家,板橋搬家,新店搬家,線上客服,網頁設計,線上客服,網頁設計,植牙,關鍵字,關鍵字,seo,seo,網路排名,自然排序,網路排名軟體,交友,越南新娘,婚友社,外籍新娘,大陸新娘,越南新娘,交友,外籍新娘,視訊聊天,大陸新娘,婚友社,婚友,越南新娘,大陸新娘,越南新娘,視訊交友,外籍新娘,網路排名,網路排名軟體,網站排名優化大師,關鍵字排名大師,網站排名seo大師,關鍵字行銷專家,關鍵字,seo,關鍵字行銷,網頁排序,網頁排名,關鍵字大師,seo大,自然排名,網站排序,網路行銷創業,汽車借款,汽車借錢,汽車貸款,汽車貸款,拉皮,抽脂,近視雷射,隆乳,隆鼻,變性,雙眼皮,眼袋,牙齒,下巴,植牙,人工植牙,植髮,雷射美容,膠原蛋白,皮膚科,醫學美容,玻尿酸,肉毒桿菌,微晶瓷,電波拉皮,脈衝光,關鍵字,關鍵字,seo,seo,網路排名,自然排序,網路排名軟體,英語演講,托福,Toastmaster,
10:46 PM
Regardless of the debate, North American games now have the chance to play Ragnarok Online with all kinds of ro zeny. During the free open Beta test period that you do not cost any ragnarok zeny, over ten thousand people logged on the game daily. Soon after this latest period, on a week notice, players were informed that the game was going pay iro zeny to play again. Each type of weapon, daggers and two handed swords, bows and so on which can gain from cheap zeny, have a unique animation for every class and sex. All ragnarok online zeny has the end effect of making every series of dungeons or outdoor maps look exactly alike.
4:42 PM
when you believeit's true when u believeit's a big worldblue skyin that daynobody at hereif you would liketomorrow is a fine daybeauty lifemiss youshine futureit's sun dayi am not a big girlin my lifethe feeling of loveshine daygood feelingbeautiful worldenjoy delicious foodlove is a feelingTalk to me softlyThere's something in Ur eyesDon't hang Ur head in sorrowplease don't cryI know how U feel insideI've been there beforeSomethings changing inside UAnd don't U knowDon't U cry tonightI still love U babyThere's a heaven above U babyGive me a whisperAnd give me a sighGive me a kiss before U tell me goodbyeDon't U take it so hard nowplease don't take it so badI'll still be thinkin' of UAnd the times we had-babyAnd please remember That I never liedif you want to make believethere's nothing up my sleevei'm a man as man can beas you can plainly seedon't want to see no tearseliminate your fearsi'm someone you can't fighti'm plain in sizeyou can't believe your eyesi'm too much to hold
10:58 PM
TheWorld of Kung fu Gold seems also important. His only since ancient immutable law. WoKf gold in the game is just like the money in the life. It is different of the buy World of Kung fu Gold online in the game world. You can have cheap World of Kung fu Gold to update your weapons. And the World of Kung fu money should be more and more.
10:03 PM
你 是 我 屋 裡 唯 一 的 音 符 我 拿 起 藏 滿 故 事 的 長 笛
2:51 AM
外遇外遇
外遇外遇
外遇外遇
外遇外遇
外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇
外遇
外遇 外遇
外遇
外遇 外遇
外遇
外遇
外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 ,
外遇 外遇 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇
外遇
外遇 外遇
外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇 , 外遇
劈腿劈腿
劈腿劈腿劈腿
劈腿劈腿劈腿喜帖
囍帖卡片
外遇外遇 外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇
外遇 外遇 外遇 外遇剖析 外遇調查 外遇案例 外遇諮詢 偷情 第三者外遇話題 外遇發洩 感情挽回 徵信社 外遇心態 外遇 通姦 通姦罪 外遇徵信社徵信社外遇 外遇 抓姦徵信協會徵信公司 包二奶 徵信社 徵信 徵信社 徵信社 徵信社 徵信社 徵信 徵信 婚姻 婚前徵信 前科 個人資料 外遇 第三者 徵信社 偵探社 抓姦 偵探社 偵探社婚 偵探社 偵探社
偵探家事服務家事服務家電維修家事服務家事服務家事服務家事服務
家事服務持久持久持久持久持久持久持久離婚
網頁設計徵信社徵信社徵信徵信社外遇離婚協議書
劈腿持久持久
持久持久持久
劈腿剖析徵信徵信社
外遇外遇外遇外遇徵信社
徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社
徵信徵信社徵信徵信
徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信徵信
徵信徵信徵信徵信
徵信徵信徵信
徵信徵信徵信
徵信徵信徵信徵信
徵信徵信社徵信社徵信社
徵信社徵信社徵信社徵信社
徵信社
2:13 AM
I want you to go look up "The Nameless Mod" for the game Deus Ex, which was one by your sister company which was headed by Warren who didn't fuck up and pre-hyped a bag of shit (even though Deus Ex DID deserve the bitch ad your piece of shit got).
Anyway the above mod is proof that the modding industry still has its strength, which led to several remakes of popular games e.g Goldeneye.
Anyway I find it completely hilarious how you bitch about the modding industry being a load of bullshit. What have you done in the last decade? Daikatana huh, too bad it flopped like a piece of shit.
Thank lord Warren was kind enough to bail out Ion's name with his instant classic Deus Ex.
9:50 PM
情色a片,
日本a片,
av女優,
av片,
av,
sogo論壇,
okav,
a片下載,
85cc免費影片,
85cc免費影城,
a片,
hilive,
sex520,
okav成人影院,
hilive,
avhigh,
聊天室,
av,
聊天室,
視訊聊天室,
成人聊天室,
辣妹,
辣妹影片直播,
美女交友,
美女視訊,
av美女,
波霸美女,
視訊交友,
美女遊戲,
聊天室,
視訊聊天室,
視訊自拍,
色情聊天室,
成人聊天室,
視訊影音,
成人視訊,
視訊美眉,
18禁視訊,
視訊本土,
視訊LIVE,
av,
av片,
av女優,
a片,
日本a片,
aa片免費看,
a片下載,
情色a片,
85cc,
85cc免費影城,
85cc免費影片,
hi5,
hilive,
sogo論壇,
sex520免費影片,
.,
OKAV成人影院,
.,
av,
.,
av片,
.,
av女優,
.,
a片,
.,
日本a片,
.,
aa片免費看,
.,
a片下載,
.,
情色a片,
.,
85cc,
.,
85cc免費影城,
.,
85cc免費影片,
.,
hi5,
.,
hilive,
.,
sogo論壇,
.,
sex520免費影片,
.,
AVROOM,
007情色網,
0204live比基尼美眉,
0204貼圖區,
0401影音視訊,
080 中部人聊天室,
080 苗栗人聊天室,
080 聊天室,
080 尋夢園聊天室聯盟,
0800a片網,
080中部人聊天室,
080豆豆聊天室,
080苗栗人聊天室,
080聊天王朝,
080聊天網,
080尋夢園聊天室,
104貼圖區,
1069 拓峰網貼圖區,
168私服論壇,
168論壇,
173 影音 live 秀,
176成人影音城,
176影音live秀,
18進不禁的影片,
300俱樂部,
383 影音 live 秀,
383movie成人影城,
383v live實境影音,
383成人影城,
383影音live秀,
383影音城,
38女孩貼圖區,
38美眉,
39a片情人光碟網,
3d美女圖,
520聊天室,
666 貼圖區,
6k聊天室,
6k聊天館,
777 女人貼圖區,
777美女圖,
78論壇,
85cc免費影城,
9k聊天室基隆人的窩,
av色美媚貼圖區,
av女優,
a圖網貼圖區,
a383成人影音城,
a38av383影音城,
a38影城,
av女優,
av1688影音娛樂網,
av383影音城,
av78 貼圖區,
av女優下載,
av女優介紹,
av女優王國,
av女優免費影片,
av女優免費影片觀賞,
av女優排行,
av女優無碼,
av女優貼圖,
av美女,
av情色,
av貼圖區,
a片,
a片下載,
a片女優,
a片分享,
a片卡通,
a片名星,
a片免費,
a片欣賞,
a片直播,
a片無碼,
a片短片,
a片貼圖,
a片試看,
a片網,
a片網站,
a片影片,
a片線上看,
a片線上觀看,
a片論壇,
a片觀賞,
a圖a片,
dodo豆豆聊天室,
eney伊莉論壇,
et免費a片,
f罩杯美眉,
g8mm視訊影音,
g8yy 歐美貼圖區,
gb論壇,
girl5320 貼片貼圖區,
gogobox論壇,
g世代論壇,
jp 貼圖區,
kiss 情網貼圖區,
kiss 貼圖區,
kiss情色,
kiss情色文學,
kiss情色網,
kiss貼圖區,
la論壇,
love104影音live秀,
mm387美眉共國,
mm美女,
mobile01論壇,
ng綜合論壇,
ok論壇,
ol 美腿圖,
ol 美腿褲襪,
ol美腿,
plus 28論壇,
plus論壇,
qq 美美貼圖區,
qq聊天室,
ro 私服論壇,
s383情色大網咖,
s383影音live秀,
sex520免費影片,
sex888movie影城,
sex888免費看影片論壇,
sex女優,
sex女優王國,
sex貼圖區,
showlive影音聊天網,
sip單身俱樂部,
sm聊天室,
sogo論壇,
ut 女同聊天室,
ut 男同志聊天室,
ut聊天室,
uu 貼圖區,
一夜情聊天室,
一夜情貼圖區,
一夜聊天室,
一葉晴貼圖區,
一葉晴貼影片區,
丁字褲女優,
丁字褲美女寫真,
丁字褲美女影片,
人之初貼圖區,
八國聯軍情色網,
八國聯軍論壇,
十七歲女孩貼影區,
又又處女貼影區,
下載a片,
上班族聊天室,
大老婆俱樂部,
大波霸美女影片,
大眾論壇,
女同志聊天室,
女郎俱樂部,
女郎貼影區,
女狼俱樂部,
女學生內衣照,
女優天堂貼圖,
女優王國,
女優盒子,
女優貼片,
女優貼圖,
女優電影,
女優寫真,
女優影片,
小老婆俱樂部,
小老鼠論壇,
小弟弟情色網,
小弟弟貼圖區,
小弟弟貼影片,
小弟弟貼影片區,
小弟弟貼影片網,
小弟弟貼影區,
小弟弟影片,
小杜情色網,
小妹妹貼影區,
小高聊天室,
小說論壇,
小賤人貼影區,
小瓢蟲情色論壇,
小瓢蟲論壇,
小護士偷拍網,
小魔女自拍天堂貼圖區,
小魔女自拍貼圖區,
小魔女免費影片,
小魔女貼圖區,
小魔女貼影片,
不色不進貼影區,
不穿內衣,
中部人聊天室,
內衣秀,
內衣模特兒,
內衣模特兒寫真,
內衣褲,
天天情色,
天天幹貼圖區,
天天網遊論壇,
天天論壇,
天生名模貼圖區,
天堂私服論壇,
天堂情色,
天堂情色網,
夫妻聯誼俱樂部,
少女內衣,
手工內衣,
日本av女優,
日本av女優免費影片區,
日本a片,
日本女優,
日本內衣,
日本正妹,
日本正妹照片,
日本正妹影片,
日本美女,
日本美女圖庫,
日本美女寫真集,
日本偷拍,
日本情色女優,
日本辣美女優,
日本模特兒寫真,
日本學生妹,
月光論壇,
月宮俱樂部,
月宮貼圖區,
比基尼,
比基尼女郎,
比基尼內衣,
比基尼內衣,
比基尼泳裝,
比基尼泳裝外拍,
比基尼泳裝美女,
比基尼泳裝美女的影片,
比基尼泳裝美少女圖片,
比基尼美女,
比基尼美女,
比基尼美女的奶,
比基尼辣妹,
比基尼辣妹照片區,
比基尼辣妹圖片,
比基尼辣妹影片,
比基尼線,
水美眉,
北部人聊天室,
卡通aa片,
卡通aa片免費看,
卡通a片,
卡通a片免費看,
卡通美女遊戲,
卡通貼圖區,
可愛美眉,
只有貼圖區,
台中人聊天室,
台中聊天室,
台論論壇,
台灣 kiss 倩色網貼圖區,
台灣 kiss 情網貼圖區,
台灣av女優,
台灣a片,
台灣a片王,
台灣kiss情色文學,
台灣kiss情色文學區,
台灣kiss情色網,
台灣女優,
台灣自拍偷拍,
台灣客棧電影貼圖區,
台灣美女,
台灣美女 kiss 情網貼圖區,
台灣美女貼圖,
台灣美女貼圖區,
台灣美女電影,
台灣美女圖,
台灣美女寫真貼圖區,
台灣香腸俱樂部,
台灣偷拍,
台灣情色,
台灣情色貼圖,
台灣情色網,
台灣情色網綜合論壇,
台灣情色論壇,
台灣無限貼圖區,
台灣貼圖區,
台灣賓館偷拍,
台灣論壇,
台灣論壇女生遊戲,
台灣論壇好玩遊戲區,
台灣論壇遊戲區,
巨乳女優,
巨乳美女,
布蘭妮貼圖區,
平面模特兒,
幼幼偷拍,
幼幼貼影區,
打工正妹,
本土a片,
本土女優,
本土偷拍,
正妹,
正妹大學,
正妹大學宅男社,
正妹日報,
正妹地圖,
正妹百人斬,
正妹自拍,
正妹空姐寫真,
正妹星球,
正妹相簿,
正妹美食地圖,
正妹無名,
正妹無名相簿,
正妹無名相簿分享,
正妹照片,
正妹圖,
正妹圖片,
正妹圖片或照片,
正妹網,
正妹裸照,
正妹影片,
正妹餐廳,
正妹牆,
交友啦咧聊天室,
交友聊天室,
交友貼影區,
伊莉論壇,
同志聊天,
同志聊天室,
同志貼圖區,
名模露點,
成人a片,
成人偷拍,
成人情色,
成人情色小說,
成人情色文學,
成人情色貼圖,
成人情色貼圖區,
成人聊天室,
成人貼圖區,
成人影片,
成人影城,
成人影音,
成人影音城,
成人論壇,
有閒俱樂部,
百分百貼圖區,
米克情色網,
米克綜合論壇,
自拍a片,
自拍偷拍,
自拍偷拍成人影片,
自拍偷拍貼圖,
自拍偷拍貼圖區,
自拍偷拍影片,
自拍偷窺貼圖區,
自拍貼圖區,
自拍影片,
自拍露點,
自慰偷拍,
色妹妹貼圖區,
色咪咪貼影片,
色咪咪影片網,
色美眉,
色美眉免費看影片,
色美眉帖圖,
色美眉部落,
色情a片,
色情偷拍,
色情聊天室,
色情貼圖區,
色情影片,
色情論壇,
免費 a片,
免費av女優,
免費av女優影片,
免費a片,
免費a片下載,
免費a片欣賞,
免費a片試看,
免費a片線上看,
免費a片觀賞,
免費a圖a片,
免費a圖a片網,
免費下載a片,
免費女優,
免費女優電影,
免費女優影片,
免費卡通a片,
免費成人影片,
免費成人影城,
免費色情影片,
免費看a片,
免費偷拍影片,
免費情色,
免費情色小說,
免費情色文學,
免費情色貼圖,
免費情色電影,
免費情色影片,
免費聊天室,
免費無碼a片,
免費視訊聊天,
免費視訊聊天室,
免費試看a片,
免費影片,
免費線上aa片試看,
免費線上a片,
免費線上看a片,
免費觀看a片,
完美女人,
完美女人影音,
完美女人影音網,
我愛78論壇,
我愛黑澀會美眉,
汽車旅館偷拍,
男人幫論壇,
男同志聊天室,
男男貼圖區,
男模特兒,
私服論壇,
私密論壇,
豆豆聊天,
豆豆聊天室,
走光偷拍,
走光露點,
車展模特兒,
亞男貼圖區,
依莉論壇,
兔女郎貼影區,
兔姐姐小穴貼圖區,
兔姐姐貼圖區,
兔姊姊貼影區,
制服美女,
咆哮小老鼠分享論壇,
咆哮小老鼠影片,
咆哮小老鼠影片分享區,
咆哮小老鼠論壇,
咆嘯老鼠論壇,
性感內衣,
性感內衣褲美女照片,
性感比基尼,
性感正妹,
性感美女,
性感美女照片,
性感美眉,
性感美腿,
性感影片,
性愛俱樂部,
性愛偷拍,
性愛聊天室,
性愛貼圖區,
性愛影片,
拉子聊天室,
明星偷拍,
松島楓免費影片,
泳裝美女,
波波情色貼圖,
波霸美女,
波霸美女小遊戲,
波霸美女寫真,
玩美女人,
玩美女人試看片,
玩美女人影音秀,
直直黑皮論壇,
花花論壇,
金瓶梅貼圖區,
金瓶梅影片交流區,
金瓶影片交流區,
咪咪情色貼圖,
咪咪情色貼圖區,
咪咪貼圖區,
哈啦聊天室,
哈雷聊天室,
柔情聊天網,
洪爺情色,
洪爺情色貼圖,
洪爺情色貼圖區,
洪爺情色網,
洪爺貼圖區,
洪爺影城,
流精歲月論壇,
看a片,
美女工廠,
美女交友,
美女地圖,
美女自拍,
美女桌布,
美女野球拳,
美女視訊,
美女貼圖,
美女貼圖片區,
美女貼圖區,
美女照片,
美女遊戲,
美女遊戲區,
美女圖,
美女圖片,
美女與野獸,
美女裸照,
美女裸體,
美女寫真,
美女寫真集,
美女影片,
美女牆,
美少年貼圖區,
美眉,
美眉小遊戲,
美眉共和國,
美眉成人排行榜,
美眉脫內衣遊戲,
美眉部落格,
美眉遊戲,
美美情色網,
美美貼圖區,
美國av女優,
美國a片,
美腿俱樂部,
美腿絲襪,
美腿貼圖,
美腿圖,
美腿論壇,
美腿褲襪,
美腿褲襪高跟鞋,
美腿頻道,
美樂蒂情色網,
美臀美腿寫真,
背包客棧論壇,
苗栗人聊天室,
限制級a片,
香港論壇,
香蕉俱樂部,
香蕉鮑魚俱樂部,
原味內衣,
旅館偷拍,
真實偷拍,
馬子貼圖區,
高中正妹圖片,
高校美眉,
高校美眉遊戲,
高跟美腿,
高跟鞋美腿,
鬥陣俱樂部,
做愛偷拍,
做愛影片,
偷內衣褲,
偷拍 自拍,
偷拍內褲,
偷拍分享,
偷拍片,
偷拍自拍,
偷拍自慰,
偷拍走光,
偷拍走光照,
偷拍胸部,
偷拍做愛,
偷拍情色,
偷拍短片,
偷拍貼片,
偷拍貼圖,
偷拍照,
偷拍照片,
偷拍裙底,
偷拍圖片,
偷拍圖庫,
偷拍圖貼,
偷拍網,
偷拍網站,
偷拍影片,
偷拍論壇,
偷拍露點,
婦產科偷拍,
強姦學生妹,
情色av,
情色a片,
情色小站,
情色小遊戲,
情色小說,
情色文,
情色文章,
情色文學小說,
情色文學區,
情色文學網,
情色卡通,
情色交友,
情色光碟,
情色成人,
情色自拍,
情色自拍貼圖,
情色典獄長,
情色性愛貼圖,
情色故事,
情色偷拍,
情色聊天,
情色聊天室,
情色短片,
情色視訊,
情色貼,
情色貼片,
情色貼圖,
情色貼圖網,
情色遊戲,
情色電影,
情色電影分享,
情色電影分享區,
情色圖,
情色圖片,
情色圖書館,
情色圖貼,
情色漫畫,
情色網,
情色網站,
情色寫真,
情色影片,
情色影音中心,
情色論壇,
情網貼圖區,
情趣內衣,
清純女優,
清涼內衣秀,
清涼內衣秀短片,
淫蕩學生妹,
甜心寶貝貼圖區,
甜心寶貝貼影片,
甜心寶貝貼影區,
聊天王,
聊天交友,
聊天室,
聊天室交友,
聊天室找一夜,
聊天室尋夢園,
聊天聯盟,
脫內衣,
被偷拍做愛,
透明內衣,
野外偷拍,
尋夢園聊天,
尋夢園聊天室,
尋夢園聊天室聯盟,
尋夢園聊天聯盟,
廁所偷拍,
廁所偷拍照片,
援交友聊天室,
援交偷拍實錄,
換妻俱樂部,
港台明星露點寫真,
無毛小穴貼圖區,
無名正妹,
無名正妹照片,
無名正妹牆,
無名相簿正妹照片,
無限貼圖區,
無限論壇,
無碼av女優,
無碼a片,
無碼女優,
無碼女優天堂,
絲襪美腿,
絲襪美腿貼圖,
視訊美女,
視訊聊天,
視訊聊天室,
貼圖俱樂部,
貼圖區,
貼影片,
貼影片區,
貼影區,
黑澀會美眉,
黑澀會美眉全身的照片,
黑澀會美眉即時通,
黑澀會美眉的照片,
黑澀會美眉無名,
黑澀會美眉圖片,
嗡嗡嗡論壇,
幹幹妹貼圖區,
微風廣場論壇,
微風論壇,
微風論壇短片區,
愛情公寓聊天室,
愛愛俱樂部,
新樂園貼圖區,
極品女人影音視訊,
痴漢俱樂部,
禁地論壇,
裙下偷拍,
裙底偷拍,
運動內衣,
遊戲論壇,
電眼美女,
電眼美女小遊戲,
嘟嘟成人貼圖區,
嘟嘟情色,
嘟嘟情色網,
嘟嘟貼圖區,
嘟嘟影城,
彰化人聊天室,
漂亮美女貼影區,
漂亮美眉,
熊貓成人貼圖區,
熊貓情色,
熊貓情色貼圖,
熊貓貼圖區,
熊貓貼圖區列表,
網拍模特兒,
網愛聊天室,
網愛影音,
網路正妹,
網路美女,
網路美女照片,
網際論壇,
網襪美腿圖庫,
維克斯論壇,
腿模美腿寫真,
臺灣情色網,
裸體美女,
賓館偷拍,
賓館偷拍影片,
辣手美眉,
辣手貼圖區,
辣妹俱樂部,
辣美眉,
寫真女郎影片,
寫真美女,
影片下載,
影片分享,
影音分享,
影音日誌,
影音視訊,
影音視訊聊天室,
摩天輪露點自拍,
模特兒公司,
模特兒成人,
模特兒走秀,
模特兒經紀公司,
模特兒寫真,
模特兒寫真集,
模特兒寫真影片,
歐美av女優,
歐美a片,
歐美女優,
歐美貼圖區,
歐美模特兒寫真,
潮吹影片,
熟女偷拍,
線上aa片免費看,
線上aa片試看,
線上a片,
線上a片免費看,
線上免費a片,
線上免費看a片,
線上直播a片,
線上看a片,
線上遊戲俱樂部,
線上影音,
線上觀看a片,
論壇,
論壇男人的最愛,
論壇區,
賞圖俱樂部,
鄰家女優,
學生內衣,
學生妹,
學生妹自拍,
學生妹自拍貼圖,
學生妹自拍貼圖區,
學生妹血淋淋,
學生妹做愛影片,
學生妹貼圖區,
學生妹影片,
蕭敬騰國際論壇,
褲襪美腿,
褲襪美腿小說,
褲襪美腿圖庫,
貓咪論壇,
貓熊貼圖區,
貓貓論壇,
隨風論壇,
鮑魚俱樂部,
糟糕貼圖區,
韓國a片,
韓國女優,
雙贏論壇,
雞爺論壇,
壞朋友論壇,
癡漢俱樂部,
癡漢論壇,
藝人露點,
麗的情色,
麗的情色小遊戲,
麗的情色遊戲,
露點自拍,
露點走光照,
露點美女,
露點貼圖,
露點照,
露點照片,
露點圖,
露點圖片,
露點寫真,
露點寫真集,
觀月雛乃影片,
av,
av片,
av女優,
a片,
日本a片,
aa片免費看,
a片下載,
情色a片,
85cc,
85cc免費影城,
85cc免費影片,
hi5,
hilive,
sogo論壇,
sex520免費影片,
av,
av片,
av女優,
a片,
日本a片,
aa片免費看,
a片下載,
情色a片,
85cc,
85cc免費影城,
85cc免費影片,
hi5,
hilive,
sogo論壇,
sex520免費影片,
av,
av片,
av女優,
a片,
日本a片,
aa片免費看,
a片下載,
情色a片,
85cc,
85cc免費影城,
85cc免費影片,
hi5,
hilive,
sogo論壇,
sex520免費影片,
av,
av片,
av女優,
a片,
日本a片,
aa片免費看,
a片下載,
情色a片,
85cc,
85cc免費影城,
85cc免費影片,
hi5,
hilive,
sogo論壇,
sex520免費影片,
av,
av片,
av女優,
a片,
日本a片,
aa片免費看,
a片下載,
情色a片,
85cc,
85cc免費影城,
85cc免費影片,
hi5,
hilive,
sogo論壇,
sex520免費影片,
0204movie免費影片 ,
0204成人 ,
0204成人片 ,
0204貼圖區 ,
0401影音視訊 ,
080 中部人聊天室 ,
080 中部人聊天室 ut ,
080 苗栗人聊天室 ,
080 聊天室 ,
0800a片區 ,
0800a片網 ,
080中部人聊天室 ,
080中部人聊天室ut ,
080豆豆聊天室 ,
080苗栗人聊天室 ,
080聊天室 ,
080聊天網 ,
080尋夢園聊天室 ,
1069壞朋友論壇gay ,
123456免費電影 ,
168私服論壇 ,
168論壇 ,
18成人 ,
18成人avooo ,
18成人網 ,
18禁 ,
18禁小遊戲 ,
18禁不禁 ,
18禁地少女遊戲 ,
18禁成人網 ,
18禁書 ,
18禁遊戲 ,
2007真情寫真 ,
2008真情寫真 ,
2009真情寫真 ,
383movie成人影城 ,
383成人 ,
383成人影城 ,
4u成人 ,
520聊天室 ,
5278影片網 ,
5278論壇 ,
666成人 ,
69成人 ,
69成人黃色故事小 ,
6k聊天室 ,
735聊天室 ,
777成人 ,
777成人區 ,
78論壇 ,
7bits論壇 ,
piring論壇 ,
85cc 免費 影城 85cc ,
85cc成人片 ,
85cc成人片 西洋片 ,
85cc免費影片 ,
85cc免費影片觀看 ,
85cc免費影城 ,
85cc免費影城85cc ,
999成人性站 ,
a111線上娛樂場 ,
aa 片免費看影片 ,
aa 片免費看影片 aa ,
aaaaa片俱樂部 ,
aaaaa片俱樂部影片 ,
aaaa片俱樂部 ,
aaa片 ,
aaa片免費看 ,
aaa片免費看短片 ,
aaa片免費看短片分享區 ,
aaa片免費看影片 ,
aaa片俱樂部 ,
aa片 ,
aa片免費看 ,
aa片免費看短片 ,
aa片免費看影片 ,
aa片免費看影片aa ,
aa片免費看影片dvd ,
aa片試看 ,
aa的滿18歲影片 ,
aio交友愛情館 ,
aooyy 成人玩具 ,
av成人網 ,
av貼圖 ,
a片 ,
a片dvd ,
a片下載 ,
a片女同志 ,
a片子 ,
a片天使 ,
a片天堂 ,
a片卡通 ,
a片自拍 ,
a片免費 ,
a片免費下載 ,
a片免費看 ,
a片免費線上看 ,
a片免費觀賞 ,
a片欣賞 ,
a片直播 ,
a片粉絲 ,
a片無碼 ,
a片貼圖 ,
a片試看 ,
a片遊戲 ,
a片圖片 ,
a片網 ,
a片網站 ,
a片影片 ,
a片線上 ,
a片線上免費看 ,
a片線上直播 ,
a片線上看 ,
a片線上觀看 ,
a片論壇 ,
a圖a片 ,
bbs論壇 ,
bt 論壇 ,
bt下載論壇 ,
bt成人 ,
bt論壇 ,
dcp2p論壇 ,
dodo豆豆聊天室 ,
dudu成人 ,
ec成人 ,
eney 伊莉論壇 ,
eney伊莉論壇 ,
et免費a片 ,
eyny 伊莉論壇 ,
eyny伊莉論壇 ,
free game免費遊戲 ,
gay免費影片下載 ,
girl5320貼影片 ,
go2av免費影片 ,
gogobox論壇 ,
g世代論壇 ,
jp成人 ,
kiss911貼圖片區 ,
kk777視訊俱樂部 ,
ktzone論壇 ,
kyo成人動漫 ,
la論壇 ,
mcy論壇 ,
meetic交友 ,
mobile01論壇 ,
ng綜合論壇 ,
okav成人影院 ,
ok論壇 ,
pc交友 ,
plus 28 論壇 ,
plus論壇 ,
powerdvd免費下載 ,
qq聊天室 ,
ro 私服論壇 ,
ro私服論壇 ,
s383情色大網咖 ,
sex383線上娛樂場 ,
sex520免費影片 ,
sex888影片分享區 ,
sex999免費影片 ,
showlive影音聊天網 ,
sm聊天室 ,
sogo 色論壇 ,
sogo 論壇 ,
sogo論壇 ,
ss383a片免費下載 ,
tt1069同志交友網 ,
tt1069男同志論壇 ,
tube影片 ,
ukiss聊天室 ,
ut 女同志聊天室 ,
ut 女同聊天室 ,
ut 聊天室 ,
ut女同聊天室 ,
ut男同志聊天室 ,
ut聊天室 ,
ut聊天室90691 ,
ut影音視訊聊天室13077 ,
xxx383美女寫真 ,
youtube 中文網站影片 ,
youtube影片下載 ,
一夜情聊天室 ,
一夜情聊天室 ,
一葉情貼圖片區 ,
一葉情貼圖片區 av127 ,
一葉晴貼圖片區 ,
一葉晴貼圖區 ,
一葉晴貼影片區 ,
丁字褲美女寫真 ,
八國聯軍成人 ,
下載a片 ,
上班族聊天室 ,
上班族聊天室f1 ,
大奶妹做愛影片 ,
大眾論壇 ,
女同志聊天室 ,
女同聊天室 ,
小老鼠分享論壇 ,
小老鼠成人 ,
小老鼠論壇 ,
小弟弟貼影片 ,
小弟弟貼影片區 ,
小弟弟影片 ,
小弟第貼影片 ,
小弟第貼影片區 ,
小高聊天室 ,
小說論壇 ,
小潘潘成人片 ,
小瓢蟲論壇 ,
小魔女自拍 ,
小魔女自拍天堂 ,
小魔女免費影片 ,
小魔女貼影片 ,
工藤靜香寫真集 ,
中部人聊天室 ,
元氣論壇 ,
午夜成人 ,
天下貼圖 ,
天下貼圖網 ,
天天網遊天堂私服論壇 ,
天天網遊論壇 ,
天空論壇 ,
天堂私服論壇 ,
天堂情色 ,
天堂情色網 ,
手機a片 ,
日本 avdvd 介紹免費觀賞 ,
日本aa片免費看 ,
日本a片 ,
日本美女寫真集 ,
月光論壇 ,
月宮貼圖 ,
火影忍者a片 ,
加盟 視訊聊天 自拍美女聊天室 ,
北部人聊天室 ,
卡通a片 ,
卡通成人網 ,
卡提諾王國論壇 ,
只有貼圖 ,
只有貼圖區 ,
台論論壇 ,
台灣18成人 ,
台灣18成人網 ,
台灣a片 ,
台灣a片王 ,
台灣kiss情色網 ,
台灣成人網 ,
台灣自拍 ,
台灣美女貼圖區 ,
台灣情色 ,
台灣情色網 ,
台灣論壇 ,
台灣論壇女生遊戲 ,
台灣論壇好玩遊戲區 ,
台灣論壇遊戲區 ,
失敗論壇 ,
失落的世界聊天 ,
布蘭妮貼圖片區 ,
本土a片 ,
本土自拍 ,
本土自拍天堂 ,
本土自拍貼圖 ,
白色情人節 ,
交友 ,
交友 ,
交友ukiss ,
交友聊天室 ,
交友視訊 ,
交友網 ,
伊利論壇 ,
伊莉成人 ,
伊莉論壇 ,
同志聊天室 ,
同志貼圖 ,
同志影片 ,
同志論壇 ,
成人 ,
成人a片 ,
成人dvd ,
成人小遊戲 ,
成人小說 ,
成人文章 ,
成人文學 ,
成人卡通 ,
成人用品性易購 ,
成人用品維納斯 ,
成人交友 ,
成人光碟 ,
成人自拍 ,
成人夜色 ,
成人動畫 ,
成人動漫 ,
成人情色 ,
成人聊天室 ,
成人貼圖 ,
成人貼圖站 ,
成人貼圖區 ,
成人遊戲 ,
成人電影 ,
成人圖片 ,
成人圖片區 ,
成人圖貼 ,
成人漫畫 ,
成人漫畫區 ,
成人網 ,
成人網站 ,
成人影城 ,
成人影音 ,
成人論譠 ,
百分百成人圖片 ,
百分百貼圖 ,
百分百貼圖區 ,
米克綜合論壇 ,
自拍 ,
自拍走光貼圖 ,
自拍美女聊天室 ,
自拍美女聊天室 s383 ,
自拍美女聊天室 視訊聊天 ,
自拍偷拍 ,
自拍密錄館 ,
自拍貼圖 ,
自拍影片 ,
色咪咪貼影片 ,
色咪咪影片網 ,
色美眉 ,
色美眉部落格 ,
色情 ,
色情a片 ,
色情小遊戲 ,
色情小說 ,
色情文章 ,
色情文學 ,
色情片 ,
色情卡通 ,
色情守門員 ,
色情貼片 ,
色情貼圖 ,
色情遊戲 ,
色情電影 ,
色情圖片 ,
色情漫畫 ,
色情網 ,
色情網站 ,
色情影片 ,
色情論壇 ,
免費 ,
免費 a片 ,
免費aa片試看 ,
免費av18禁影片 ,
免費a片 ,
免費a片下載 ,
免費a片試看 ,
免費a片線上看 ,
免費a片觀賞 ,
免費a長片線上看 ,
免費下載a片 ,
免費小遊戲 ,
免費小說 ,
免費卡通a片 ,
免費成人 ,
免費成人片觀賞 ,
免費成人卡通 ,
免費成人動畫 ,
免費成人遊戲 ,
免費成人電影 ,
免費成人影片 ,
免費成人影城 ,
免費色情小說 ,
免費色情影片 ,
免費看aa片 ,
免費看a片 ,
免費情色 ,
免費聊天室 ,
免費無碼a片 ,
免費視訊 ,
免費視訊聊天 ,
免費視訊聊天室 ,
免費試看a片 ,
免費遊戲 ,
免費電影 ,
免費算 ,
免費網路電視 ,
免費影片 ,
免費影片線上直播 ,
免費線上a片 ,
免費線上成人影片 ,
免費線上看a片 ,
免費線上看a長片 ,
免費線上遊戲 ,
免費線上觀看a片 ,
我們這一家影片 ,
我愛78論壇 ,
杜蕾斯成人 ,
杜蕾斯免費a片 ,
男人幫論壇 ,
男同志聊天室 ,
男同志影片 ,
男男貼圖 ,
私服論壇 ,
私密論壇 ,
豆豆聊天 ,
豆豆聊天室 ,
豆豆聊天室13 15歲 ,
亞亞成人館 ,
依莉論壇 ,
咆哮小老鼠分享論壇 ,
咆哮小老鼠影片 ,
咆哮小老鼠影片分享區 ,
咆哮小老鼠影片分享論壇 ,
咆哮小老鼠論壇 ,
咆嘯老鼠論壇 ,
夜未眠成人影城 ,
夜玥論壇 ,
姐姐g罩杯影片 ,
性感影片 ,
性愛自拍 ,
性愛貼圖 ,
性愛影片 ,
拉子聊天室 ,
拓網交友 ,
昆蟲論壇 ,
東東成人 ,
松島楓免費影片 ,
直直黑皮論壇 ,
花花論壇 ,
金瓶影片交流區 ,
哈啦聊天室 ,
哈雷聊天室 ,
柔情聊天網 ,
洪爺貼圖 ,
看a片 ,
美女視訊 ,
美女貼圖 ,
美女貼圖片區 ,
美女寫真 ,
美國a片 ,
背包客棧論壇 ,
苗栗人聊天室 ,
重車論壇 ,
限制級a片 ,
限制寫真女郎 ,
香港a片 ,
香港製造論壇 ,
香港論壇 ,
原住民聊天室 ,
娘家影片 ,
漫月光論壇 ,
真情寫真 ,
真愛love777聊天室 ,
粉紅豆豆聊天室 ,
粉喵聊天室 ,
草莓論壇 ,
做愛影片 ,
情人視訊高雄網 ,
情人視訊網 ,
情色 ,
情色a片 ,
情色dvd ,
情色小站 ,
情色小遊戲 ,
情色小說 ,
情色文章 ,
情色文學 ,
情色文學區 ,
情色光碟 ,
情色成人 ,
情色自拍 ,
情色典獄長 ,
情色聊天室 ,
情色視訊 ,
情色貼片 ,
情色貼圖 ,
情色貼圖區 ,
情色遊戲 ,
情色電影 ,
情色圖片 ,
情色圖貼 ,
情色漫畫 ,
情色網 ,
情色網站 ,
情色影片 ,
情色論壇 ,
捷克論壇 ,
深藍論壇 ,
終極一家影片 ,
聊天 ,
聊天ukiss ,
聊天ukiss tw ,
聊天王 ,
聊天交友 ,
聊天室 ,
聊天室080 ,
聊天室ukiss ,
聊天室ut ,
聊天室入口 ,
聊天室交友 ,
聊天室找一夜 ,
聊天室尋夢園 ,
聊天是 ,
脫星寫真圖片 ,
袍笑小老鼠論壇 ,
袍嘯小老鼠影片 ,
都都成人站 ,
傑克論壇 ,
最新免費線上遊戲 ,
尋夢園聊天室 ,
尋夢園聊天聯盟 ,
援交友留言 ,
援交友聊天室 ,
無限論壇 ,
無碼a片 ,
無碼dvd成人網 ,
番薯論壇 ,
視訊 ,
視訊momokoko ,
視訊ukiss ,
視訊ukiss tw ,
視訊交友 ,
視訊交友34c ,
視訊交友90739 ,
視訊交友高雄網 ,
視訊交友網 ,
視訊美女 ,
視訊美女34c ,
視訊情人高雄網 ,
視訊聊天 ,
視訊聊天室 ,
視訊辣妹 ,
貼圖 ,
貼圖片區 ,
貼圖區 ,
貼影片 ,
飯島愛免費影片 ,
飯島愛寫真集 ,
飯島愛影片直播 ,
黃色珍藏館成人 ,
黑澀會美眉 ,
嗡嗡嗡論壇 ,
微風成人 ,
微風成人區 ,
微風論壇 ,
微風論壇短片區 ,
愛情公寓聊天室 ,
搜樂論壇 ,
禁地成人 ,
禁地論壇 ,
嘟嘟成人 ,
嘟嘟成人網 ,
嘟嘟貼圖 ,
嘟嘟貼圖區 ,
彰化人聊天室 ,
彰化人聊天室二 ,
漫畫貼圖 ,
熊貓貼圖 ,
熊貓貼圖區 ,
瑤瑤寫真 ,
網際論壇 ,
維克斯論壇 ,
維納斯成人用品 ,
蒼井空免費影片 ,
裸露美女寫真 ,
辣美眉173show影片 ,
寫真 ,
寫真女郎影片 ,
寫真集 ,
寫真集美女 ,
寫真集圖片 ,
影片 ,
影片下載 ,
影片分享 ,
影片轉檔程式 ,
影音視訊聊天室 ,
摯愛中年聊天室 ,
歐美aa片免費看 ,
歐美a片 ,
歐美a免費線上看 ,
歐美模特兒寫真 ,
潮吹影片 ,
熟女人影片 ,
線上 aa 片免費看 ,
線上 aa 片免費看嘟嘟 ,
線上aa片免費看 ,
線上a片 ,
線上a片免費看 ,
線上小說 ,
線上成人影片 ,
線上免費a片 ,
線上免費看a片 ,
線上直播a片 ,
線上看a片 ,
線上看tv ,
線上遊戲 ,
線上觀看a片 ,
論壇 ,
論壇男人的最愛 ,
論壇區 ,
蕃薯論壇 ,
貓貓論壇 ,
韓國a片 ,
雙贏論壇 ,
壞朋友論壇 ,
爆爆爽a片免費看 ,
癡漢論壇 ,
麗的色情小遊戲 ,
麗的色情遊戲 ,
麗的情色小遊戲 ,
麗的情色遊戲 ,
麗的線上小遊戲 ,
蠟筆小新影片 ,
觀月雛乃aa片 ,
0 1美女寫真貼圖 ,
007 貼圖區 ,
007色情貼圖貼片區 ,
007情色貼圖 ,
007情色貼圖網 ,
007情色網 ,
0204 貼圖區 ,
0204movie免費影片 ,
0204成人 ,
0204成人片 ,
0204視訊交友 ,
0204視訊情色 ,
0204貼圖區 ,
0401 影音視訊聊天室 ,
0401成人聊天 ,
0401成人聊天聯盟 ,
0401視訊美女 ,
0401影音視訊 ,
0509免費視訊聊天秀 ,
0509視訊聊天 ,
080 中部人聊天室 ,
080 中部人聊天室 ut ,
080 成人 聊天 ,
080 苗栗人聊天室 ,
080 聊天室 ,
080 聊天室小高聊天室 ,
0800a片區 ,
0800a片網 ,
080中部人聊天室 ,
080中部人聊天室ut ,
080色情聊天室 ,
080豆豆聊天室 ,
080苗栗人聊天室 ,
080情色皇朝聊天 ,
080聊天室 ,
080聊天網 ,
080尋夢園聊天室 ,
0941視訊聊天 ,
1007 成人聊天 ,
1007視訊 ,
100one百萬成人貼電影 ,
104 貼圖區 ,
104av成人影音城 ,
104成人影音 ,
104成人影音城 ,
104自拍俱樂部 ,
104美女貼圖寫真 ,
104美女貼圖寫真板 ,
104美女圖貼寫真 ,
104情色聊天 ,
104視訊美女 ,
104視訊聊天網 ,
1069交友 ,
1069猛男溜鳥自拍俱樂部 ,
1069壞朋友論壇gay ,
109辣妹自拍 ,
123456免費電影 ,
168 台灣辣妹寫真貼圖區 ,
168私服論壇 ,
168視訊聊天 ,
168論壇 ,
173視訊 ,
173影音live秀 ,
176視訊聊天 ,
17淫蕩女孩網 ,
17歲淫蕩女孩 ,
17歲淫蕩女孩排行榜 ,
183俱樂部 ,
183俱樂部音樂試聽 ,
18jack後宮電影 ,
18成人 ,
18成人avooo ,
18成人網 ,
18成人影城0204movie ,
18成人影音 ,
18禁 ,
18禁小遊戲 ,
18禁小說 ,
18禁不禁 ,
18禁卡通 ,
18禁地少女遊戲 ,
18禁地戀愛遊戲 ,
18禁成人網 ,
１８禁成人影音 ,
18禁書 ,
18禁區 ,
18禁遊戲 ,
18禁遊戲區 ,
18禁漫畫 ,
18禁影片 ,
1元聊天d760 ,
1元視訊 ,
2007 真情寫真 ,
2007真情寫真 ,
2009真情寫真 ,
24h免費成人頻道 ,
383 影音 live 秀 ,
383movie成人影城 ,
383v live實境影音 ,
383v live實境影音秀 ,
383成人 ,
383成人影城 ,
383影音live秀 ,
383影音城 ,
39a片情人光碟網 ,
3a情色 ,
3a情色台灣 ,
3a情色台灣榜 ,
3d美女圖 ,
3級女星寫真 ,
40歲熟女貼圖 ,
40熟女自拍 ,
4u成人 ,
50歲熟女貼圖 ,
520聊天室 ,
520視訊美女 ,
520視訊聊天 ,
5278影片網 ,
5278論壇 ,
666 貼圖區 ,
666成人 ,
666成人光 ,
69成人 ,
69成人黃色故事小 ,
6k ,
6k聊天室 ,
6k聊天館 ,
6元視訊美女 ,
6元視訊聊天室 ,
735聊天室 ,
777 女人貼圖區 ,
777成人 ,
777成人區 ,
777美女圖 ,
77p2p影片網 ,
78論壇 ,
7bits論壇 ,
831成人 ,
piring論壇 ,
85cc ,
85cc 免費 影城 85cc ,
85cc成人片 ,
85cc成人片 西洋片 ,
85cc免費影片 ,
85cc免費影片觀看 ,
85cc免費影城 ,
85cc免費影城85cc ,
888post 視訊辣妹 ,
888視訊聊天 ,
888視訊聊天(x2web) ,
999成人性站 ,
999東洋成人 ,
999東洋成人 ,
9k躺伯虎聊天室 ,
a111線上娛樂場 ,
a383 ,
a383girl影音 ,
a383girl影音城 ,
a383影城av383影音城 ,
a383影音城 ,
a383影音城av383影音城 ,
a38av383影音城 ,
aa 片免費看影片 ,
aa 片免費看影片 aa ,
aaaaa片俱樂部 ,
aaaaa片俱樂部影片 ,
aaaa片 ,
aaaa片俱樂部 ,
aaa片 ,
aaa片免費看 ,
aaa片免費看短片 ,
aaa片免費看短片分享區 ,
aaa片免費看影片 ,
aaa片俱樂部 ,
aa片 ,
aa片免費看 ,
aa片免費看影片 ,
aa片免費看影片aa ,
aa片免費看影片dvd ,
aa片試看 ,
aa的滿18歲影片 ,
aio交友愛情館 ,
aio交友網 ,
aooyy 成人玩具 ,
av ,
av 女優 ,
av104 ,
av104成人影音 ,
av104成人影音城 ,
av1688影音娛樂網 ,
av383 ,
av383影音城 ,
avon ,
av女 ,
av女優 ,
av女優dvd ,
av女優dvd ,
av女優介紹 ,
av女優王國 ,
av女優報報 ,
av女優貼圖 ,
av女優圖片 ,
av女優寫真 ,
av女優影片 ,
av片 ,
av成人網 ,
av自拍 ,
av美女 ,
av博物館 ,
av視訊 ,
av視訊論壇 ,
av貼圖 ,
av影片 ,
a片 ,
a片dvd ,
a片下載 ,
a片女同志 ,
a片子 ,
a片小遊戲 ,
a片小說 ,
a片分享 ,
a片天使 ,
a片天堂 ,
a片卡通 ,
a片自拍 ,
a片免費 ,
a片免費 ,
a片免費下載 ,
a片免費看 ,
a片免費線上看 ,
a片免費觀賞 ,
a片欣賞 ,
a片直播 ,
a片城 ,
a片段 ,
a片粉絲 ,
a片區 ,
a片無碼 ,
a片短片 ,
a片貼圖 ,
a片試看 ,
a片遊戲 ,
a片電影 ,
a片圖片 ,
a片網 ,
a片網站 ,
a片影片 ,
a片線上 ,
a片線上免費看 ,
a片線上看 ,
a片線上觀看 ,
a片論壇 ,
a片觀賞 ,
a圖a片 ,
a圖網情色貼圖交流論壇 ,
a漫 ,
bbs論壇 ,
bobo寫真女郎影片 ,
bt 論壇 ,
bt下載論壇 ,
bt成人 ,
bt情色下載區 免費 ,
bt論壇 ,
ck性感內衣 ,
dcp2p論壇 ,
dodo豆豆聊天室 ,
dudu 嘟嘟貼圖區 ,
dudu成人 ,
dv影視 ,
ec成人 ,
eney 伊莉論壇 ,
eney伊莉論壇 ,
et正妹牆etwalls com ,
et免費a片 ,
eyny 伊莉論壇 ,
eyny伊莉論壇 ,
ez情色聊天 ,
f 罩杯美女圖片 ,
free game免費遊戲 ,
gay片免費下載 ,
gay免費影片下載 ,
ggyy線上漫畫 ,
girl5320 貼片貼圖區 ,
girl5320貼影片 ,
go1069猛男溜鳥自拍俱樂部 ,
go2av ,
go2av免費影片 ,
gogo2sex ,
gogobox論壇 ,
g世代論壇 ,
hcg 貼圖區 ,
hilive ,
hilive tv ,
jp 貼圖區 ,
jp成人 ,
jp自拍俱樂部 ,
kavo ,
kijiji ,
kijiji奇集集 ,
kiss ,
kiss 文學區 ,
kiss911貼圖片區 ,
kiss文學區 ,
kiss情色 ,
kiss情色文學 ,
kiss情色貼圖 ,
kiss情色網 ,
kk777視訊俱樂部 ,
kkbox ,
kkman ,
kk俱樂部 ,
ktzone論壇 ,
kyo成人動漫 ,
la論壇 ,
live173影音live秀 ,
luna私服 ,
mcy論壇 ,
meetic交友 ,
mm美女 ,
mm美女 ,
mobile01論壇 ,
msn視訊美女 ,
nancy裸體寫真 ,
ng綜合論壇 ,
okav成人影院 ,
ok論壇 ,
ol 制服美女影片 ,
ol美腿 ,
pc 交友 ,
pc交友 ,
pg美人網 ,
plus 28 論壇 ,
plus論壇 ,
powerdvd免費下載 ,
qk休閒網 ,
qq 交友 ,
qq 美美貼圖區 ,
qq美美色網 ,
qq聊天室 ,
ro 私服論壇 ,
ro私服論壇 ,
s383 影音live秀 ,
s383情色大網咖 ,
sbl線上收看 ,
sex383線上娛樂場 ,
sex520 ,
sex520免費影片 ,
sex888影片分享區 ,
sex999免費影片 ,
sex女優 ,
sex女優王國 ,
sex貼片區 ,
showlive影音聊天網 ,
sip單身俱樂部 ,
sm聊天室 ,
sogo 色論壇 ,
sogo 論壇 ,
sogo情色網 ,
sogo情色網首頁 ,
sogo情色論壇 ,
sogo論壇 ,
ss383a片免費下載 ,
t 6成人網頁 ,
taiwankiss文學區 ,
tt1069同志交友網 ,
tt1069男同志論壇 ,
tube影片 ,
ukiss聊天室 ,
ut 女同志聊天室 ,
ut 女同聊天室 ,
ut 聊天 ,
ut 聊天室 ,
uthome視訊美女 ,
uthome視訊聊天室 ,
ut女同聊天室 ,
ut男同志聊天室 ,
ut聊天 ,
ut聊天室 ,
ut聊天室90691 ,
ut視訊聊天室 ,
ut影音視訊聊天室 ,
ut影音視訊聊天室13077 ,
vlog電眼美女 ,
wii168 ,
wii一路發 ,
winrar免費下載 ,
wish俱樂部 ,
xxx383成人視訊 ,
xxx383美女寫真 ,
xyz視訊聊天 ,
xyz辣妹影音聊天網 ,
youtube 中文網站影片 ,
youtube影片下載 ,
ㄇ美女圖片 ,
一夜情金瓶梅 ,
一夜情聊天室 ,
一夜情貼圖區 ,
一夜聊天室 ,
一葉情貼圖片區 ,
一葉情貼圖片區 av127 ,
一葉情貼圖區 ,
一葉晴貼圖片區 ,
一葉晴貼圖區 ,
一葉晴貼影片 ,
一葉晴貼影片區 ,
一對一視訊聊天 ,
一對一電話視訊聊天 ,
一對多視訊聊天 ,
丁字褲自拍 ,
丁字褲美女圖 ,
丁字褲美女寫真 ,
丁字褲美女影片 ,
丁字褲辣妹 ,
人之初貼圖區 ,
人妻 辣妹自拍教流屋 ,
人妻自拍 ,
人妻自拍貼圖 ,
人妻性交俱樂部 ,
人妻俱樂部 ,
人妻俱樂部y2k ,
人妻俱樂部聊天室 ,
人妻俱樂部網站 ,
人妻辣妹自拍 ,
人妻熟女 ,
人妻熟女 老闆娘 ,
人妻熟女dvd ,
人妻熟女免費電影 ,
人妻熟女報告 ,
人妻熟女寫真 ,
人妻熟女寫真館 ,
人體寫真模特兒 ,
八國聯軍成人 ,
八國聯軍情色網 ,
十八禁成人影音 ,
三女星寫真 ,
下川島美女圖片 ,
下載a片 ,
下載熟女貼圖 ,
上班族聊天室 ,
上班族聊天室f1 ,
大奶妹做愛影片 ,
大家來找碴美女 ,
大眾論壇 ,
大陸熟女自拍 ,
大陸總機小姐做愛影片 ,
大貓自拍俱樂部 ,
女F4裸體寫真 ,
女人做愛貼圖 ,
女人做愛照片 ,
女生自拍照片 ,
女生自衛影片 ,
女生做愛自拍圖 ,
女生做愛自拍圖片 ,
女生裸體 自拍裸體寫真 ,
女同志做愛 ,
女同志聊天室 ,
女同性戀做愛 ,
女同聊天室 ,
女性天堂做愛自拍 ,
女性自拍寫真區 ,
女性性感內衣 ,
女明星裸體寫真 ,
女孩自拍 ,
女孩自拍天堂 ,
女星全裸寫真 ,
女星寫真 ,
女星寫真貼圖 ,
女星寫真集 ,
女星寫真集貼圖 ,
女星寫真網 ,
女星露點寫真 ,
女郎即時通視訊聊天 ,
女郎即時通視訊聊天室 ,
女優 ,
女優介紹 ,
女優王國 ,
女優盒子 ,
女優報報 ,
女藝人裸體寫真 ,
小老鼠分享論壇 ,
小老鼠成人 ,
小老鼠論壇 ,
小弟弟貼圖貼片網 ,
小弟弟貼影片 ,
小弟弟貼影片區 ,
小弟弟貼影區 ,
小弟弟影片 ,
小弟第貼影片區 ,
小杜情色網 ,
小杜情色論壇 ,
小高聊天室 ,
小涵的淫蕩告白 ,
小莉影音像館 ,
小說論壇 ,
小辣妹情色網 ,
小辣妹影音交友網 ,
小潘潘成人片 ,
小潘潘裸體寫真 ,
小澤圓做愛影片下載區 ,
小瓢蟲情色論壇 ,
小瓢蟲論壇 ,
小蕃薯 ,
小褲褲ㄉ誘惑 自拍寫真 ,
小護士淫蕩貼圖 ,
小護士淫蕩貼圖區 ,
小魔女自拍 ,
小魔女自拍天堂 ,
小魔女自拍貼圖 ,
小魔女免費影片 ,
小魔女貼影片 ,
川藏第一美女 ,
工藤靜香寫真集 ,
已婚成人聊天 ,
已婚聊天室 ,
中文性搜網-情色文學區 ,
中國後宮電影 ,
中國情色美女貼圖 ,
中國辣妹穴穴自拍 ,
中國辣妹自拍 ,
中部人聊天室 ,
中部聊天室 ,
元氣論壇 ,
內衣女寫真 ,
內衣美女 ,
內衣美女做愛 ,
內衣美女寫真 ,
內衣被拿下來的美女 ,
內衣寫真 ,
內衣寫真秀 ,
內衣寫真美女圖 ,
內衣寫真集 ,
內衣廣告美女 ,
內衣模特兒 ,
內衣模特兒寫真 ,
午夜成人 ,
天下貼圖 ,
天下貼圖網 ,
天上天下裸體寫真 ,