Development on DKII has switched

[Zn]

This feels like a very STUPID debate.

Corbachu:

1. If I'm not mistaken, Shadowcaster is a game by Raven.

2. 3dfx interactive is a company that I (and others) have had a lot of respect for over the years, so I don't think that most 3dfx fans would appreciate a bunch of amateurs using their name.
Also, I remember that when nVIDIA bought 3dfx, they left out a little section that would provide driver support for the existing 3dfx chips.
That little section was and I think it still is what remains of the legendary 3dfx. If that little group still exists, then 3dfx does exist and your friends are breaking the law. If it doesn't, oh well, read above.

3. You are breaking the law anyway, using DK elements in a game. You do not own a license.

4. I don't think XReal uses any stolen code ; I think that some very talented programmers modified the Q2 engine source, giving it the technological assets of Quake3. It's a "compatible" engine, not an illegal copycat.

5. You are trying to create a very epic game, the so-called sequel of another extremely epic game.
Such games require an incredible ammount of resources (read: money).

Technician:

1. "Freeware" is something that is free, cannot be sold.

2. John Romero is the designer of Hexen. Raven produced it. I think that's why it was called "Beyond Heretic". Don't you agree?

[コービン]

fucking a, man. Just sue me then, dudes. Like I said I don't care what you say about the project in any means. I don't care about all this bullshit other than the fact that you guys obviously do not want a sequel.
And I would rather discuss it on my forum thread over at ice-d. This is because this thread is pure spam and clogging up what little interest people might have in Daikatana II.
So stop crying over what is happening and get over it. There's nothing you can do to stop this from happening, other than the fact that you can probably rat us out to Eidos. Like I said a dozen times before, I will tell Eidos when I am ready.
So please stop discussing legal issues for the last time. 3dfx Interactive Games is developing a missionpack, and we're developing Daikatana 2, so there you have it.
Final answer. Please, this is turning into a spam thread. All of you guys are just mirroring what the other said, and I know you aren't saying this to help us out any more.
Just stop right now, and the thread won't go on pointlessly. I am stubborn right now, so nothing you can say will take me away from my decision.

[chiQ]

quote:Originally posted by Corbachu:
fucking a, man. Just sue me then, dudes. Like I said I don't care what you say about the project in any means. I don't care about all this bullshit other than the fact that you guys obviously do not want a sequel.
And I would rather discuss it on my forum thread over at ice-d. This is because this thread is pure spam and clogging up what little interest people might have in Daikatana II.
So stop crying over what is happening and get over it. There's nothing you can do to stop this from happening, other than the fact that you can probably rat us out to Eidos. Like I said a dozen times before, I will tell Eidos when I am ready.
So please stop discussing legal issues for the last time. 3dfx Interactive Games is developing a missionpack, and we're developing Daikatana 2, so there you have it.
Final answer. Please, this is turning into a spam thread. All of you guys are just mirroring what the other said, and I know you aren't saying this to help us out any more.
Just stop right now, and the thread won't go on pointlessly. I am stubborn right now, so nothing you can say will take me away from my decision.

You're a very silly little boy. This is not about whether or not we want a sequel. It's about United States intellectual property law. This thread will go on as we want it to, discussing whatever aspect of your project we choose. This is not spam, it's discussion of a very real issue that you should be facing and dealing with rather than hiding from. We are trying to save your parents and team a lot of grief, because you're being incredibly obtuse about this, and I think most of us are hoping that if we reword and reiterate our points maybe it'll either sink in or you will finally get the importance of what we are saying.

You're a daft child with no idea of just what you're doing (stealing) or just how dangerous that is (could result in your parents/of-age teammates being litigated into the ground), and that's depressing. I hope your team puts the brakes on, because you're obviously careening down a hill of self-righteousness that you can't deal with little boy, and it's not just you that could be hurt by it.

If I were in your team I'd lead a coup and dethrone you, because you're obviuosly not equipped to manage a development team of any kind. IP rights are serious business and big money, and your completely unreasonable refusal to deal with that side of your project shows what a little squit you are. It doesn't take an intellectual giant to know that you're stealing from a big publisher and they might not like that, and yet you carry on out of stubbornness. Yeah, you're hoping if you say often enough that you 'don't have to' that'll make it true, but you're kidding yourself. I really hope your team owns you before Eidos does.

[コービン]

I'm sorry, first off, if I made anyone here mad.
Second, Let's please get back onto topic, because all we do if Eidos happens to issue a cease and dissist order is just redo the game to make it legal, as what the SOG team did with Generations at the time. That's cool--if Eidos sends us a warning we'll stop. I appreciate your advice (if not a bit too harsh) but right now we're not concerning ourselves with it. I never intended this thread to go the way it was, and I am pretty sure you weren't, either. I told you guys a hundred of times, and this is making us look very bad. This isn't what we need right now; right now, we need support. I'm pretty sure the Generations debate at the time didn't go this far until they came forward. So don't take this the wrong way or anything. I'm trying not to, and I wasn't trying to downplay anyone. I'm not trying to get on your bad side, I'm not trying to do any of that stuff. I will be held accountable for my actions if any is taken. This thread went way too far, and I want all of you to know that this spawned no hard feelings, no matter what I say.
I am really depressed and don't know what else to say, but that I'm glad people are watching our backs. That's about it--pretty much all of us are in shock. It's turning into a flame war now, which is not what I originally intended (I intended to give you guys updates), so please stick to topic.
And I only mentioned the forums in hopes of more visitors and members. You must understand that this is very hard to digest, that we've been under things like this but at the same time we haven't. All through this I tried to turn it around, but you guys persisted, and that's why I exploded. I'm sorry if I offended anybody around here, I love everything about this forum and everyone here, and was hoping this was the place to have fun discussion about a mod, not a flame war (which this is what it turned out to be).
Okay, now I have some updates regarding physical progress, but I don't know if I should post any more physically because I now know what to expect.
Look, leave all of this to my team and myself, that's all I gotta say. We'll handle all of this stuff, so just chill. I'm trying to turn this around, not make it worse that it already is.
Sorry if anyone was hurt by what I said or offended. I hope you can take my apologie, because I wouldn't do anything here to hurt people's feelings, let alone make them mad. Leave this to FPI, we'll handle it. The backlash I've recieved here is too stinging to review some of the newer posts, so I apoligize.
Again, I did not expect to recieve such backlash from anyone (which I obviously did), and then again I shouldn't have exploded. I'm sorry that I did and I am hoping we can all be in good spirits again. Accept my apologie?
chiQ: wow. I wasn't expecting that.  
 
 [ January 16, 2004, 06:50 PM: Message edited by: Corbachu ]

[slip]

I never got mad at all. I don't hold anything against you (as you can probably tell from hosting a forum for you) but you are right in that you are being stubborn about the legal issues. The first thing you've done right is appologise, now you just have to kick your butt and stop being stubborn   ....

I have a question reguarding the legal topic...
Could I be prosecuted in anyway (if someone decided to take legal action about the issue) because I'm hosting a forum for the project?????

And chiQ I wish I could *speak* like you heh...  I don't have a very large vocabulary  

[コービン]

quote:Originally posted by slip:
I never got mad at all. I don't hold anything against you (as you can probably tell from hosting a forum for you) but you are right in that you are being stubborn about the legal issues. The first thing you've done right is appologise, now you just have to kick your butt and stop being stubborn       ....

I have a question reguarding the legal topic...
Could I be prosecuted in anyway (if someone decided to take legal action about the issue) because I'm hosting a forum for the project?????

And chiQ I wish I could *speak* like you heh...  I don't have a very large vocabulary      

No. Not at all. Don't worry about that. If that was the case than everyone hosting a thread about a Generations project would get sued. No, it doesn't work that way    

Well, it seems chiQ found the right words  
And...what is the topic now? I kinda' lost track...:}
 
 [ January 16, 2004, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Corbachu ]

[Pyros]

quote:Originally posted by Corbachu:
That's cool--if Eidos sends us a warning we'll stop. I appreciate your advice (if not a bit too harsh) but right now we're not concerning ourselves with it.

After this, let's go out and rob a bank. We'll worry about getting caught if they manage to track us down.
Wait, doesn't that sound like a stupid idea? Doing something illegal and hoping that you won't get caught? Because that is exactly what you are doing. I have serious doubts that you know anything about the video game industry, or how to make a game. You're going about this all wrong. You've got poor PR, you're using a stolen license, you're not listening to reason, you've released a black screen and called it evidence. I have a hard time believing anyone would follow your lead as a game development team. Unless of course you've also got thieves working for you. My suggestion? Make your own game. Don't make Daikatana 2. I will not stop until you do. Why? Because you're being selfish. You're not the only one who could get in trouble. Your team members could, you could, your parents, and even John Romero (as this thread, detailing you using a license that is not yours is easily available on his message board). You're trying to game fame and respect through thievery and other disappointing methods.

[コービン]

quote:Originally posted by Pyros:
 

quote:Originally posted by Corbachu:
That's cool--if Eidos sends us a warning we'll stop. I appreciate your advice (if not a bit too harsh) but right now we're not concerning ourselves with it.

After this, let's go out and rob a bank. We'll worry about getting caught if they manage to track us down.
Wait, doesn't that sound like a stupid idea? Doing something illegal and hoping that you won't get caught? Because that is exactly what you are doing. I have serious doubts that you know anything about the video game industry, or how to make a game. You're going about this all wrong. You've got poor PR, you're using a stolen license, you're not listening to reason, you've released a black screen and called it evidence. I have a hard time believing anyone would follow your lead as a game development team. Unless of course you've also got thieves working for you. My suggestion? Make your own game. Don't make Daikatana 2. I will not stop until you do. Why? Because you're being selfish. You're not the only one who could get in trouble. Your team members could, you could, your parents, and even John Romero (as this thread, detailing you using a license that is not yours is easily available on his message board). You're trying to game fame and respect through thievery and other disappointing methods.

You are sorely testing my patience. You do not understand how to manage a game like this. You do not understand what we do. You do not make this, I and my team do. You have no idea what goes on outside of this. Stop acting like you do.
In spite of pyros, I have went ahead and contacted Eidos Interactive Public Relations about the okay to create a sequel, to see if it would be okay. If it's not, we'll rename the game, redo the concept, but make it a spiritual sequel instead.
Like I said, I have contacted Eidos, largely in part because the manager asked me to. Now, we sit back and wait. And that's the only thing you guys can do, too.
There you have it. My only assurance I did this is by my word.
So let's hope they bring back good news!  
 
 [ January 17, 2004, 12:40 AM: Message edited by: Corbachu ]

[Pyros]

quote:Originally posted by Corbachu:
You are sorely testing my patience. You do not understand how to manage a game like this. You do not understand what we do. You do not make this, I and my team do. You have no idea what goes on outside of this. Stop acting like you do.
In spite of pyros, I have went ahead and contacted Eidos Interactive Public Relations about the okay to create a sequel, to see if it would be okay. If it's not, we'll rename the game, redo the concept, but make it a spiritual sequel instead.
Like I said, I have contacted Eidos, largely in part because the manager asked me to. Now, we sit back and wait. And that's the only thing you guys can do, too.
There you have it. My only assurance I did this is by my word.
So let's hope they bring back good news!  

I have a good idea about the legal situation of the project. You, however, do not. And in this case, the legal situation is the biggest part. If I am testing your patience, it's only because you won't heed the words of advice everyone is giving you. I can promise you that Eidos will not let you use the license, and you know this just as well as I do. It was stupid in the first place to use it, and it's stupid to continue using it. Why not just go for a "spiritual sequel" in the first place? Trying to continue on the current path you are on will get a lot of people in trouble, including yourself. Are you willing to do that?

[コービン]

quote:Originally posted by Pyros:

quote:Originally posted by Corbachu:
You are sorely testing my patience. You do not understand how to manage a game like this. You do not understand what we do. You do not make this, I and my team do. You have no idea what goes on outside of this. Stop acting like you do.
In spite of pyros, I have went ahead and contacted Eidos Interactive Public Relations about the okay to create a sequel, to see if it would be okay. If it's not, we'll rename the game, redo the concept, but make it a spiritual sequel instead.
Like I said, I have contacted Eidos, largely in part because the manager asked me to. Now, we sit back and wait. And that's the only thing you guys can do, too.
There you have it. My only assurance I did this is by my word.
So let's hope they bring back good news!      

I have a good idea about the legal situation of the project. You, however, do not. And in this case, the legal situation is the biggest part. If I am testing your patience, it's only because you won't heed the words of advice everyone is giving you. I can promise you that Eidos will not let you use the license, and you know this just as well as I do. It was stupid in the first place to use it, and it's stupid to continue using it. Why not just go for a "spiritual sequel" in the first place? Trying to continue on the current path you are on will get a lot of people in trouble, including yourself. Are you willing to do that?

No. After talking with my team, my programmer has learned a function in the Xreal engine that needs the full version of Daikatana to run. This means two things: one, we are using the Daikatana engine, just enhanced with other stuff (q3 models, q3bsp, etc). This was great news because now we can make it a mod for Daikatana and still use an updated engine.
Like I said before, pyros, I contacted the PR department, and we'll see what he says. It wasn't a stupid idea or concept, just a idea or a concept not fully grasped, you must remember that. Second, like I said, the game will *not* run without Daikatana. I couldn't even run the damn thing because I did not have Daikatana installed on my system, therefore it couldn't find the files and dlls needed to open the subsystem, whatever that means.
So know this: pyros, you may have been right, but I'm willing to give us a chance that Eidos might consider, now that it required the DK engine.
We'll see, my friend. In time.

[Pyros]

quote:Originally posted by Corbachu:
No. After talking with my team, my programmer has learned a function in the Xreal engine that needs the full version of Daikatana to run. This means two things: one, we are using the Daikatana engine, just enhanced with other stuff (q3 models, q3bsp, etc). This was great news because now we can make it a mod for Daikatana and still use an updated engine.
Like I said before, pyros, I contacted the PR department, and we'll see what he says. It wasn't a stupid idea or concept, just a idea or a concept not fully grasped, you must remember that. Second, like I said, the game will *not* run without Daikatana. I couldn't even run the damn thing because I did not have Daikatana installed on my system, therefore it couldn't find the files and dlls needed to open the subsystem, whatever that means.
So know this: pyros, you may have been right, but I'm willing to give us a chance that Eidos might consider, now that it required the DK engine.
We'll see, my friend. In time.

Without the Daikatana source code, it doesn't work on the Daikatana engine. It just works on an engine that contaiks Quake 2 code. Requiring the CD only proves that not only are you using a license you don't own, but now you're using materials from the game to make your own game. Aren't there little lights in your head going off to say that making a sequel is a bad, bad idea? If you had gotten permission, this wouldn't be a problem. They may have allowed you the name and access to materials. But, you don't, and likely won't. Why should a company give a franchise, no matter how it's regarded, to a fan based "company" who expects to recieve the license to make a sequel, despite they're not a professional team? It'll make Eidos look bad. If they have yet to release the source code, why would they release the license?

[コービン]

quote:Originally posted by Pyros:
 

quote:Originally posted by Corbachu:
No. After talking with my team, my programmer has learned a function in the Xreal engine that needs the full version of Daikatana to run. This means two things: one, we are using the Daikatana engine, just enhanced with other stuff (q3 models, q3bsp, etc). This was great news because now we can make it a mod for Daikatana and still use an updated engine.
Like I said before, pyros, I contacted the PR department, and we'll see what he says. It wasn't a stupid idea or concept, just a idea or a concept not fully grasped, you must remember that. Second, like I said, the game will *not* run without Daikatana. I couldn't even run the damn thing because I did not have Daikatana installed on my system, therefore it couldn't find the files and dlls needed to open the subsystem, whatever that means.
So know this: pyros, you may have been right, but I'm willing to give us a chance that Eidos might consider, now that it required the DK engine.
We'll see, my friend. In time.

Without the Daikatana source code, it doesn't work on the Daikatana engine. It just works on an engine that contaiks Quake 2 code. Requiring the CD only proves that not only are you using a license you don't own, but now you're using materials from the game to make your own game. Aren't there little lights in your head going off to say that making a sequel is a bad, bad idea? If you had gotten permission, this wouldn't be a problem. They may have allowed you the name and access to materials. But, you don't, and likely won't. Why should a company give a franchise, no matter how it's regarded, to a fan based "company" who expects to recieve the license to make a sequel, despite they're not a professional team? It'll make Eidos look bad. If they have yet to release the source code, why would they release the license?

This is why I'm vouching for permission. If they grant it, cool. If they don't, then like I said, we'll just redesign. Right now, I'm tired. let's just see what Eidos says, then we'll resume. Right now, I gotta sleep on this, which is not good, because i am worried that all of this will make me look like an idiot (which it already is) and nobody will care about this anymore. It's not a bad idea. Let's just see what Eidos says.

And, what about other mods created by people like us that are similiar in design and were okay?
I knew I shouldn'tve made this public. they tried to tell me, I just feel like all I do is make bad decisions. I don't want to, I don't intend to, but I just do. I'm tired of it. I don't know what does it but everytime I do something it turns out wrong.
Hopefully there will be good news, but at least if they deny it will be bittersweet. You know what I'm saying? ...
 
 [ January 17, 2004, 01:28 AM: Message edited by: Corbachu ]

[Pyros]

quote:Originally posted by Corbachu:
And, what about other mods created by people like us that are similiar in design and were okay?

You're not making a mod though. You're using an engine that has coding from the Quake 2 engine. That's not the Daikatana engine at all, and therefore it's not a mod (you can't mod a game using a different engine). It's an unofficial sequel using a license you do not own. That's the final point.

[コービン]

quote:Originally posted by Pyros:
 

quote:Originally posted by Corbachu:
And, what about other mods created by people like us that are similiar in design and were okay?

You're not making a mod though. You're using an engine that has coding from the Quake 2 engine. That's not the Daikatana engine at all, and therefore it's not a mod (you can't mod a game using a different engine). It's an unofficial sequel using a license you do not own. That's the final point.

Xreal requires Quake 2 or Quake 3 to run. Xreal is more of a source engine. Modding for it is essentially a mod. We've changed it to require daikatana. Xreal is a source engine. it still requires a 'base' game.
 
 [ January 17, 2004, 01:47 AM: Message edited by: Corbachu ]

[Pyros]

quote:Originally posted by Corbachu:
Xreal requires Quake 2 or Quake 3 to run. Xreal is more of a source engine. Modding for it is essentially a mod. We've changed it to require daikatana. Xreal is a source engine. it still requires a 'base' game.

However, Xreal does not equal the Daikatana engine, and neither does classifying it as containing the Quake 2 engine. If that was all that was required to make a mod, people would mod games such as Half Life using the Quake 3 engine. You cannot expect to use this as a legal point when Eidos comes knocking, as it won't stand up.