Left Midway

[(Insert clever username)]

I, for one, am happy to hear that Romero is no longer employed with Midway.  Lately, I am seeing nothing but franchise games from them.  Honestly, we need another Mortal Kombat about as bad as we need yet another version of Tekken.  MK:Deception did try some new things, but ... it was still MK.

I hope one of the "exciting developments" you're into includes the DS, or even a next-gen console.  If you're going back to the PC, then welcome home!

Midway's always banked on franchises.  Where have you been?

Area 51 is a good game, mk deception was a wonderful game.  They improved a the engine from da and made one kick ass game.  Even finding the extras was neat because you had to do konquest mode - which i enjoyed.

Harping on a company for utilizing their franchises is like yelling at mcdonalds for selling big macs.  Why do they keep reissuing franchise games?  because they sell, that's why.  Gauntlet will be no different.

[Stage-It]

Hey guys, I can definitely confirm that I have left Midway - I've been gone for about 3 weeks and Rhaluka and I have been traveling around and having fun together (a sort of vacation without going to tropical destinations).

Midway says that development of Gauntlet hasn't been impacted by my departure and is scheduled to ship this fall. I can't say anything more about the situation and hope you all understand.

I'm currently looking at lots of exciting developments right now and it'll be a couple months before I can announce my next destination.

Good luck, man.  You'll make it.  You were the one who made me get in in the first place.

You WILL succeed.  You're a fucking brilliant designer.

[Silent_B0b]

Good luck.  It's a job seeker's market right now anyway.

[Snipe[LAN]]

Midway's always banked on franchises.  Where have you been?

Well, I've been right here with the rest of the gaming community, wondering if sequels and "proven" genres are all the gaming industry will amount to...

Area 51 is a good game

"Area 51 is a good game" is an opinion

"Area 51 uses advanced AI, graphics, sound, story, or whatever to make it a good game" is an opinion backed with facts.

, mk deception was a wonderful game.  They improved a the engine from da and made one kick ass game.  Even finding the extras was neat because you had to do konquest mode - which i enjoyed.

Like I said, they tried new things ... and, yes it is a good game.  Just like DOOM 3 is a good game, but imagine if id decided to use the DOOM 3 engine to try something new and exciting.  Carmack was semi-correct in an interview when he said "we're a victim of our own success"

Harping on a company for utilizing their franchises is like yelling at mcdonalds for selling big macs.

I don't harp on Nintendo, because Super Mario Bros., Super Mario Bros. 2, Super Mario Bros. 3, Super Mario World, Super Mario 64, Mario RPG, and all the other Mario derivatives look and played very differently ... that's how you utilize a game franchise.  You innovate.  

As for the Big Mac comment, comparing a game franchise to the McDonald's franchise is plain ridiculous ...  The word franchise in relation to McDonald's refers to the business system, logos, and colors; not selling hamburgers.  Their real business is real estate...

Why do they keep reissuing franchise games?  because they sell, that's why.  Gauntlet will be no different.

Maybe, we're all just dumb or desperate enough to keep buying the same game over again.  I may be alone on this, but I haven't bought a Tekken game since Tag, I haven't bought Gran Turismo 4 because it's pretty much more of the same, I can't for the life of me understand why people buy Madden 99,2000,2001 ... 2005 ... 200n, and it goes on...

I don't have a problem with franchises.  I have a problem with franchises that put the same game in a box, slap a few "all-new" features in and expect me to take it as gold.  These companies are selling to mass market, not REAL gamers.  Real gamers expect a hell of a lot more than that.  Gauntlet appears to be incorporating some awesome gameplay and presentation that I have yet to experience, which is why I think it will sell, not because the name Gauntlet is on the box.

[(Insert clever username)]

But what if people like what they see and want more of the same?  This is essentially what gamers tell game companies every time they make a title that's a hit.

Your comment on mario brothers baffles me.  You complain about games just adding a few new features and expecting people to buy it, when the only thing separating smb from smb3 are a few suits and a world map.  Same core gameplay, but with a few extra treats.  Mario 64 was the only "true" revolutionary game in the franchise, because it made the jump from 2d to 3d.  Halo 2?  Yep, same core gameplay, better graphics, and a few more guns.  But it sold.  why?  Because people wanted more of Halo.

I'm all about creativity and innovation in games.  But you know why the creative and innovative games (save katamari damacy - and even it didn't put up absolutely huge numbers) don't get made?  Because they don't sell.  Like it or not, the video game business is just that - a business.  Of course companies are going to bank on what's proven to be successful.

And if you want to go even deeper:

Area 51 is by all intents and purposes an original game.  the arcade shooter was not an fps.

Narc is an original game.  A horrible game, but original at the very least.

Hell, i'd consider mk da an original game just for the sheer amount of content that came with it.

As I stated earlier, I want originality and creativity in my games.  It's one of my biggest gripes about video gaming today.  However, if a game has a tried and true formula that I like then i'll play it.  It doesn't have to be all original if I just like the damn game.


FYI:  people buy madden every year because everyone plays the latest one online.  That's it.

People continue to buy Tekken games because they like Tekken.

People continue to buy gran turismo because with each game the driving AI, physics, and car tuning options are improved.  People will spend 150 dollars on a force feedback wheel to play this game.

[Snipe[LAN]]

Your comment on mario brothers baffles me ... Mario 64 was the only "true" revolutionary game in the franchise, because it made the jump from 2d to 3d.

What?  Using a different graphics/physics engine isn't all it takes to be revolutionary.  I completely found Mario RPG revolutionary.  Super Mario Kart started a whole genre on it's own so it becomes revolutionary.  Also, I think you need to replay SMB and SMB3 ( way, way more secrets, items, gameplay elements and cool stuff in SMB3)

FYI:  people buy madden every year because everyone plays the latest one online.  That's it.

That would be like me playing the latest Diablo, because everyone has migrated to it, and not because it adds enormous value to the franchise.  So, I think that's a dumb reason to spend $50 on the latest version (maybe, there are just too many fanatics who need to have the latest rosters in order to enjoy a football game)

People continue to buy gran turismo because with each game the driving AI, physics, and car tuning options are improved.  People will spend 150 dollars on a force feedback wheel to play this game.

Not even close ... I sorta, kinda liked GT3 only because the graphics were beautiful compared to GT2.  The game?  It felt like playing GT2 with better graphics ... the physics weren't too different, the AI was just as retarded as the other games, and the tuning options were changed maybe a smidgen if that.  I played GT4 on a buddy's PS2.  I am not impressed.  It looks like GT3 again with more cars, a lot of the same tracks, a worsened physics engine (my Integra's nose in real life does not dive into the pavement when I get on the brakes like the one in the game), and even more poor choices concerning the length of the later races.  GT was revolutionary.  GT2 lost some of the appeal from certain areas of GT, but made up for it with tons of replay value for hard-core car nuts like me.  GT3 had great graphics, but didn't do much for anything else.  GT4 is so far failing to impress me at all.  And, I'm an authority on GT games.  I have logged more hours on that game than most people log on several RPGs.

Here's a perfect example of a franchise used poorly, and one used well:

GT3 = GT4 (pretty much the same game experience)
Vice City < San Andreas (improved by a massive degree)

[(Insert clever username)]

I apologize, I sort of scanned over your list of SMB games and didn't realize you had included RPG among them.

You're right, it isn't all it takes to be revolutionary.  However, Mario 64 also drastically changed the gameplay element of smb games.

Again you contradict yourself by saying that smb 3 was revolutionary because it added a few bells and whistles.  I agree, SMB3 had way more to offer, but nothing was drastically changed in gameplay.  But that's fine, it was fun either way.

Normally the people who buy madden every year (like me) DO buy it for the updated rosters, among the improvements in the AI, lessening of money plays, better presentation, and extra tools to utilize (hit stick).  I'll buy the most current one this year as well.  I was afraid that EA would sit on the NFL exclusivity deal and come out with a subpar version of madden.  But from the looks of it, they are utilizing many things to improve the experience as well as add to the realism.  But the fact remains that if you do not purchase the new madden, you are left behind online.  Since i do 95% of my madden online I feel it's a huge reason to upgrade within itself.  I garner a lot of enjoyment out of the game so I certainly don't feel bad parting with 50 bucks a year for a damn good football game.  Especially with the Madden franchise coming to a close in the not so distant future.

I will agree to an extent that GT4 was sort of a letdown - mainly due to it's lack of online play.   But driving game enthusiasts still go to one series to get their fix, and thats Gran Turismo.  Forza tried, but failed horribly imo.

Just a little sidenote here.  I love 2d fighters.  LOVE THEM.  I own every DC fighter worth having, and i'm getting my xbox collection up to par.  I have capcom vs snk2 eo, capcom fighting evolution, street fighter anniversary, and will be collecting most all of the king of fighter's games that are to be released this year (sans 3d kof, which makes baby jebus cry).  Most of these games contain the exact same elements, but differ in small detail.  They can be as minute as a different medium punch, or as important as a groove set.  What matters is I like the genre and want to explore every nuance the genre has to offer me.  Sure, capcom is rehashing a ton of shit, but it doesn't matter because every game is different.

Anyway, I feel kinda weird arguing these points in a thread started to announce John Romero's departure from Midway.  If you'd like we can take this discussion  elsewhere - or you can feel free to IM me.

[Snipe[LAN]]

I apologize, I sort of scanned over your list of SMB games and didn't realize you had included RPG among them.

You're right, it isn't all it takes to be revolutionary.  However, Mario 64 also drastically changed the gameplay element of smb games.

Again you contradict yourself by saying that smb 3 was revolutionary because it added a few bells and whistles.  I agree, SMB3 had way more to offer, but nothing was drastically changed in gameplay.  But that's fine, it was fun either way.

Normally the people who buy madden every year (like me) DO buy it for the updated rosters, among the improvements in the AI, lessening of money plays, better presentation, and extra tools to utilize (hit stick).  I'll buy the most current one this year as well.  I was afraid that EA would sit on the NFL exclusivity deal and come out with a subpar version of madden.  But from the looks of it, they are utilizing many things to improve the experience as well as add to the realism.  But the fact remains that if you do not purchase the new madden, you are left behind online.  Since i do 95% of my madden online I feel it's a huge reason to upgrade within itself.  I garner a lot of enjoyment out of the game so I certainly don't feel bad parting with 50 bucks a year for a damn good football game.  Especially with the Madden franchise coming to a close in the not so distant future.

I will agree to an extent that GT4 was sort of a letdown - mainly due to it's lack of online play.   But driving game enthusiasts still go to one series to get their fix, and thats Gran Turismo.  Forza tried, but failed horribly imo.

Just a little sidenote here.  I love 2d fighters.  LOVE THEM.  I own every DC fighter worth having, and i'm getting my xbox collection up to par.  I have capcom vs snk2 eo, capcom fighting evolution, street fighter anniversary, and will be collecting most all of the king of fighter's games that are to be released this year (sans 3d kof, which makes baby jebus cry).  Most of these games contain the exact same elements, but differ in small detail.  They can be as minute as a different medium punch, or as important as a groove set.  What matters is I like the genre and want to explore every nuance the genre has to offer me.  Sure, capcom is rehashing a ton of shit, but it doesn't matter because every game is different.

Anyway, I feel kinda weird arguing these points in a thread started to announce John Romero's departure from Midway.  If you'd like we can take this discussion  elsewhere - or you can feel free to IM me.

Ahh, it's all good ... this thread isn't drawing a crowd for now anyway.  Forza did suck, btw.  

I guess I found SMB3 revolutionary, because I had never played a game so perfect up to that point.  It also was massive in size and scale (to me, then at least).  I see your point with Madden.  It doesn't help much that I'm biased, because I don't like sports games as much (although, I had a blast with NFL 2K ).  Oh, and DUDE I LOVE 2D fighters, too!  Street Fighter II was my first SNES game, and the one I requested.  My fav SF game was Alpha 3.  I also burned a hell of a lot of quarters on Fatal Fury games... but, anyways ... yeah, we are getting away from the point of this thread!    

Oh yeah, and if they ever released an online version of Marvel Vs Capcom 2 or Alpha 3, I'd be glad to show you how it's done--okay, I think it's time to start a 2D fighters thread...

[The Andreyp]

heh. my internet was down! i understand your feelings,because i was kicked in similar situation. i still being in this shit! remember my post /?
heh.. good luck anyway! i can to write in icq later..! we will talk more about it!

[Dcy123]

john good to hear u left midway im a little dissapointed about the new gauntlet but hey what can ya do just make a game that kicks butt now!
good luck

[warlordQ]

Midway is a great company.... yeah i now understand why you worked at midway    ... its all about the journey... i wish you the best of luck on your next adventure ...

[freaker]

Mr. Romero,

"keep keeping on I don´t care what they say"
beastie boys, 1989

Best wishes,
julianrafael

[Cheapy]

Best of luck in the future John. Maybe after the honeymoon you can concentrate on growing your hair long again until it reaches a level of sentience!

Holy shiz!  Pyros is back!

oh
no


gl john \o/

[DI-MeisterM]

it's days like today i'm reminded that many more people read these forums than post on them.

best of luck with everything John, and glad to hear you're getting to spend sometime with Rhaluka. i wish you both the best as always.

i'm still looking forwards to gauntlet, and now i look forwards to the announcement of what you do next.

I agree. Good luck John!
I'm also curious about the next announcement...

[Zinc]

All the best for the future, John.  I'll be looking forward to whatever you come up with next.

Now I'm sorry to move off topic, but I for one am glad that Pyros is around again; I've always enjoyed his posts (I do read more than I post  ).  

But CheapAlert, your response to his reappearance has really pissed me off!  All you have done since your return, is moan about how this board has gone downhill...  when an unprovoked 'oh no' is all that you can muster I have to question wether the blame should to be placed firmly at your door.